Looking Out From the Garage: The truth about car quality...

I didn't realize that the American cars scored so high.  I guess I've bought in to the media hype on this as well.

Good to see that all american is rated high. I was also under the impression that foriegn cars were better.

Lane - IMO part of the overall perception problem comes from the manufacturers themselves.  GM has done a good job this year getting it's hybrid message out (I've love to have the new Tahoe), but the other 2 haven't.  As I type this, I can't recall one memorable thing that I've seen or read from Chrysler this year.  Beyond that, it is well-known that the Big 3 fight virtually any attempted regulation on fuel economy and safety standards.  While I don't want to get into a discussion on regulation, my point is that this comes across as a negative.  Somewhere, somehow the American companies need to get out in front of the curve and be 'seen' as leaders again.   

Thanks for posting. I have a Ford Escape Hybrid -- and love this car. It was either this or the Toyota Highlander hybrid which cost $10K more.

The trouble is, sometimes, it's hard to tell which is the American-made car nowadays, since many of the "imports" are manufactured here, and some of the American cars have foreign parts.

I am a "buy American" kind of gal!  In the past I have owned foriegn cars, particularly following the oil embargo of the 70's.  American auto makers saw sales drop at that time because they were not on board with high mpg models.  They have done a better job with that in the past years. 

Would American auto makers be in the trouble they're in if all their employees (benefiting from a pension and health plan I'd love) were driving the cars they made?  

I love my Hummer (H3) and it averages around 20 miles per gallon (we don't sit in traffic here).  This is the second H3 I have purchased since they were offer in 2006. 

Since I've started driving, I've owned nothing but Japanese cars (not intentionally - it's just turned out that way). I started with Toyota, then Isuzu, now I'm on a lovely Acura which I love dearly. It's surprising to see where some of these makes fall. Great post.

Lane - good information, but I have driven most of these cars at one time or another, and I can tell you that for the most part they are all pretty good cars compared to what we had just 10 years ago. I think the biggest reason that GM need to restructure is the UAW. I understand that GM is paying for the health insurance for 780,000 people who are no longer employed by Gm. How can you make money like that?

I also think that they spend way too much money on the SUV products and got caught with a lot of inventory that wouldn't sell. If they would convert those SUV's to LNG, and promote it as totally green, they could clean out the dealships.

I too think American Cars are great. I owned only one Japanese car in my life. And I am an economist and I think am smart if not the smartest.

The problem with Americans cars are three folds among others.

1, The union is killing the American auto makers. I hate Unions at this point.

2, The big government contracts are killing the big three. Most often the time, foreighn makers are excluded from gov bids. Those are easy money for the big three and they are not good for gov culture.

3, American CEOs are arrogant and luxury. Toyota owner still talks to workers. Ask the GM manger what is the last time he was in the asembly line.

Of course people in MI know that we rate high, but the perception is killing us. Thanks for posting this Lane. Ford's recent release is rated high for reliabiltiy too.

The problem is perception and unions. Watching the news all morning, the Unions are not budging. errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Lane, I'm wondering how the quality ratings work for automobiles.  A lot of the major consumer product testers look at brand new stuff and how it works.  What they have a problem doing is including long-term reliability in their equations.  Maybe with cars they've figured this out.

And the UAW is going to have to wake up.  I have a feeling that Obama is a guy who is not particularly afraid of offending anyone, and they probably can't count on him for a hand out without an awful lot of strings attached.

This is great information, as was you comment on my post.  You know your stuff when it comes to cars!

Christine - You probably hadn't heard anything different.  Just like with real estate...

Michelle - It seems to be what everyone thinks. 

Erik - In 2010 look for a Plug-in Hybrid Chrysler Town and Country van... it will do the first 80 miles (I think) without the engine firing up, and get 30 mpg (I also think) after the motor fires.  Look for a serious performance electric from Dodge and a PiH from Jeep in the form of a Wrangler. 

Now, on the point of fighting the regulations...  Of course they do.  The customers have been wanting bigger vehicles.  GM, Ford and Chrysler wanted to sell what the market wanted.  The market shifted and they got nailed from it, but they were trying to build what was selling on the lots.  The foreign makes were in a better position to build smaller cars because of their other markets.  They wanted the higher fuel efficiency standards because it was pushing the market toward them. 

Pacita - For this purpose I referred to them not as American or foreign cars, but nameplates. 

Laura - I can say that you used to not be able to drive a foreign car on UAW property. 

Julie - Have you seen the new H3 SUT?

Ubong - I am actually wanting the Pontiac G8 GXP.  It will hang with a BMW M5... for less than half of the cash.

Larry - The government won't let them, and the infrastructure isn't there to support LNG... but it is a really cool fuel source. 

Huiting - I agree on #1.  On #2, check in other countries... you will see the EXACT same requirements.  On #3, I disagree completely.  I will say that some of them are arrogant, but they know what is going on down on the line as well as any foreign plate manager. 

Missy - I would love to see a bankruptcy judge look at the UAW and tell them that they can pound sand... and that the makers can hire new people that aren't in the UAW.  The UAW needs to cease to exist.  But there is a certain President-Elect that owes the unions too much to allow that to happen.

Patricia - Obama is WAY beholden to the Unions.  Where do you think that "Get out the vote" campaign came from?  He needs them, and will do what it takes to keep them powerful. 

In the case of the individual cars, they are looking at initial quality.  For the makes it is initial quality and repair records.

Lane...interesting post! I'm certainly not going to question your research, but it did surprize me. The quality "might" be there in American cars, but I think they really lack the "wow" factor. I think that is why you see them dig up and "remake" cars like the T-Bird (altho I don't think it did that well) the Mustang (not been up close and personal, but I sure like the looks) just to name a couple. I currently have a '94 F-150 that has been an awesome vehicle. (Ford trucks to me have been the best!) My other two cars are a Mercedes 420SEL (on the injured reserved list and up for adoption...hint For Sale!) and a Hynudai Sonata (lease car) The last two American cars I can say I was really impressed with were BOTH 1986....I had a Mustang GT (darn...that car could haul a--!) and a 86 Buick Regal. THOSE were good American Cars!

Now, it just seems that people want the prestige of driving a Lexus, Infinity, BMW or Benz over a Chevy or a Ford. That's what's killing the American Auto industry. Give us something we really would be proud to have in our driveway. (Yeah, I'd kill to have a new Tahoe, but not with gas prices bound to rise again in the future!) Besides, I don't need anything that big!

The auto industry needs to "re-tool" on many levels, get their cost under control, and get us some cars that will compare (in my eyes) to the foreign ones!

Thom - Great to have you pop in... I know you are a car guy too... 

Tahoe Hybrid.  Same mileage as a Camry around town. 

Pontiac G8 GT (or better yet, G8 GXP).  Killer looks.  361 hp (or 402...) and almost hitting the BMW M5 in the butt on the track. 

Pontiac Soltice, Saturn Sky... those things are pretty. 

Corvette ZR1.  Ok, what else is there to say after that?

I love my Ford F350.  The Powerstroke is fun. 

Anything from Chrysler with SRT behind the name... Challenger SRT8, 300 SRT8.

The Chrysler Town & Country might be a boring old minivan, but it is also the creme of the crop of minivans... and in 2010 they will be making it with a plug-in hybrid drive system. 

Ford Shelby Mustang... Got to love it. 

The 2010 Ford Fiesta is looking pretty nifty if you like that sort of thing. 

I'm right there with you on them getting costs under control.  The UAW is out of control, and they seem to like to put accountants in charge of car companies... not a good idea.  They need car people running the companies again.

Over the years we've owned a host of American cars and trucks and I never imagined going to the 'other side' if you will.  In a matter of a couple of years we went from an all American garage to an all import garage.  Frankly we've never had any major issues with any car we've ever owned. 

I'm surprised at a couple of the rankings but the Big 3 have been working for a while on improving their overall level of quality for a while.  The problem is perception.. I agree though, that the UAW is not helping the cause. 

Jesse - I have been on both sides... but I have never been an advocate of "Buy American" and I'm not now...  If I had a pile of money to buy cars, there would be some American Iron, as well as some foreign nameplates from just about every continent. 

But I like cheering for the underdog, and finding where the perceptions and the reality aren't lined up...  and I think there is NO bigger underdog right now than the American auto industry, and perceptions aren't in line with reality.  Besides, if you are in the car market, there is money to be saved on some cool cars.

I own a Fusion, my sister drives a Malibu. I also own 1 Honda and my daughters both have Hondas.

Any rating system that puts the Fusion and Malibu on the same level as the Hondas is flawed. There is no comparison in quality or value. The Honda blows them away. In 5 yrs. the Hondas will have high value and the Fusion and Malibu will be ready for the junk yard. You can buy American for other reasons but consumers aren't fooled by ratings that don't match reality. That's why the resale values are so different.

John - Odd...  I think most of that retail difference is due to perception.  I drive a 2000 F350 with a little over 100k on it.  It pulls a better percentage of it's sale price than a Lexus... or a Honda.  And the reality is, when you dive into the numbers that the foreign plates aren't that much better. In 15 years, the Honda will BE in the junkyard and the Ford and Chevy will still be on the road.

You are comparing apples and oranges in my opinion. American trucks are great and resale prices have always been high. I was talking cars. Still no comparison in my mind but that's subjective. If you get burned by a car company, American or foreign, you develop a bias. Same for a positive experience. I also think dealerships play a role. I have seen a real change in U.S. dealers since they have been losing market share but they were terrible back in the 70's and 80's. Honda in particular picked up on that and created true customer service oriented dealerships. Again, just my experience.

John - Sorry, but build quality is build quality.  I can't find it right now, but there was a study not too long ago that specifically targeted cars that were cross brand (like the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix) where the SAME car is built on the same line in the same factory and sold both by domestic and foreign plates.  People ranked the domestic plate as lower in reliability.  When they dug into they found that the actual repair incidence was similar for both... but that people owning the foreign plates car reported fewer problems...  They seemed to forget that they had been to the dealer 13 times for repairs. 

Just this year Toyota had to start buying back Tacomas that had the frames rusting away... lost a lawsuit, and then had a "living up to our comitments" campaign.  Sorry, but if you get compelled with a lawsuit, you aren't being generous. 

BTW, that truck pulls a better percentage of sale price at resale than Toyota and Nissan trucks, too... 

Finally, look at the stuff on the road.  Or better yet, go to the Pull-a-Part junk yards and look at what is there... and why.  Look at what has gone bad.  Automatic transmissions are generally the turd part that fails, and little Japanese cars have just as high of a failure rate as American cars...

Well, like I said, it is impossible to be objective when your own experience has been so one-sided. The U.S. car company practices in conjunction with their dealers have created a huge block of consumers who have sworn off U.S. cars. They'll have a hard time convincing people it is any different today. My Fusion is a nice car but not in the class of an Accord or a Camry. I don't expect it to last and I don't expect it to be worth much in 5 yrs. My nephew is deciding to trade in a 5 yr. old Focus or a 9 yr. old Camry. The dealer is offering the same price for both.

John - Talk about apples and oranges...  A Focus v Camry.  When they were new the Focus sold for about half of the price of the Camry.  Just because a brand new Honda Fit, brand new Toyota Yaris and a three year old Jeep Wrangler fetch the same money doesn't mean the Jeep is a better vehicle in terms of quality...  Seriously?

And as for one sided experiences...  I've owned Nissans, Toyotas, Triumphs, Fords, Jeeps... you are getting the idea?  I've also raced Hondas and Volkswagons as well as a Dodge Shelby Charger Turbo.  I have been a service writer for an independant shop, and worked in the restoration business.  I honestly don't have a preference for American cars... I have a preference for cool cars.  On the list of things I'd like to own right now (after the Pontiac G8GT or G8GXP) is a Subaru WRX STi, Toyota MR Spyder, a couple of Lexii, a BMW M5... ok, I will admit to The newer Mustang, Super Duty and Town & Country being on the list (the T&C is the one with the best chance of showing up in the driveway because my wife wants it... when it goes hybrid in 2010). 

As for your Fusion, if you take care of it, it will be last just fine.

This is a wonderful article. The things given are unanimous and needs to be appreciated by everyone.
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marqthompson
Care for Cars

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