Looking Out From the Garage: There IS a New Real Estate Transfer Tax in the ObamaCare Law

There IS a New Real Estate Transfer Tax in the ObamaCare Law

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One of the forums in which I participate has had stories on both sides of this issue for a couple of months… with the more conservative members saying that there is a 3.8% sales tax on the sale of homes, and those that are more supportive of the President and his policies saying that there isn’t.

Neither side was real specific about their information source… talk radio for some, blogs for others… nobody seemed to be going to the source… the 20,000+ page law signed by the President.  In all fairness, there is a LOT of room in 20,000 pages to hide a lot of little Easter Eggs like this.  And being fair to the other side, if there isn’t a tax, the bill isn’t going to say “there is not a tax” anywhere…

I have an answer…

There is indeed a tax on the sale of real estate.  It doesn’t apply to many people, but it WILL apply to some people that have profit from the sale of their homes. Starting in 2013, those with incomes over $200,000 will have to pay a 3.8% tax on profit from the sale of their primary residence or investment properties.  The exact amount will be based on a formula that includes the profit from the property and the income above $200,000.  The tax is not an income tax, but rather it is a “payroll tax”… officially it is a Medicare Tax.

It does not just apply to real estate, but also applies to investment income and dividends.

The bottom line is that both groups are right… and both are wrong.

But…

It will drive another nail into the luxury real estate market.  It has been in the doldrums for a while.  Adding new taxes will not get it going again.  And if you are thinking that this only affects ‘the wealthy’, think again.  Those homes are not built by ‘the wealthy’.  Those homes are not renovated by ‘the wealthy’.  Those consumers are more likely to hire contractors to do improvements.  And they are more likely to update more often…  They are a driver in the housing sector.  This added tax is NOT putting gas in the tank…

 

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Comment balloon 215 commentsLane Bailey • July 20 2010 10:05PM

Comments

To my fellow real estate professional, please note, this IS a public post...  Play nice. 

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Congratulations this post is now featured in the Silent Majority Group of Active Rain.

Posted by Broker Nick, Broker Nick Relocation Broker Service (South Florida Real Estate & Development, Inc.) almost 9 years ago

I don't agree with this tax at all. I haven't heard about it but I don't think people should get punished with yet another tax simply because of their income.

Posted by LaNita Cates (REMAX of Joliet) almost 9 years ago

Rumors and rumors of war -- been hearing tidbits on this subject.  I find this to be irresponsible fiscally, and am so amazingly tired of our industry taking the brunt of this recession which has come about because of the irresponsibility of the caretakers of our Great Nation.  How this will be of any benefit to "we, the people" is beyond my comprehension.  This is simply more blatant politics being thrust upon the populace . . .

Thank you for posting this.  Is there anyone out there who thinks these things through with just a scintilla of comprehension as to how far-reaching and potentially devastating the impact will be on so many!  That's rhetorical, of course!

Posted by Tish Lloyd, Broker - Wilmington NC and Surrounding Beaches (BlueCoast Realty Corporation) almost 9 years ago

If it moves democrats will tax it, Im getting just a little tired of this

Posted by Delaware Junk Removal Residential And Commercial Hauling Clean Outs, Whole House Clean Outs, Basements, Garages, Attics (Delaware Junk Removal 302-530-9186) almost 9 years ago

I see the health care plan as a gigantic Trojan Horse - filled with all kinds of surprises that nobody wants - but they can't see anything but the "gift" of a health care plan.  *face palm*

Posted by Karen Rice, Northeast PA & Lake Wallenpaupack Home Sales (Davis R. Chant, REALTORS) almost 9 years ago
Lane, Taxes are easy to impose. When they don't impact us directly, we tend to not give them any thought. New taxes need to be opposed. :) Steve
Posted by Steve Hoffacker, Certified Aging In Place Specialist-Instructor (Steve Hoffacker LLC) almost 9 years ago

I hadn't heard about this before Lane, thanks for researching and letting us know.  Most of the people I have been dealing with are in the income bracket that will get hurt from this. 

To Georgia'spoint.  When I saw those signs saying "good for the people" a hammer and sickle came to mind. Remember those sign in another part of the world?

Posted by Lois Davies, Cape Coral & SW Florida (Century 21 Birchwood Realty, Inc.) almost 9 years ago

Thanks for the input. This is the first time I have heard of this information.

Posted by Cheryl Ritchie, Southern Maryland 301-980-7566 (RE/MAX Leading Edge www.GoldenResults.com) almost 9 years ago

Thanks for sharing this info, Lane. I'll pass this along.

Posted by Bill Burchard, Broker, Realtor, Representing Buyers and Sellers (3B Realty: 951-347-3818, CA) almost 9 years ago

Of course, keep taxing taxing taxing...  That will make things better.  Just ask those of us in California.  One of the highest taxed populations in a state that continuously teeters on bankruptcy. 

Good post.  Wish more people were better aware and more willing to take a stance.

Posted by Ken Patterson, Roseville Real Estate, TOP Rocklin Realtor (TPR Properties) almost 9 years ago

I think this is a little misleading. My understanding (and I'm no expert) is that there is still an exclusion similar to the capital gains exclusion so that you would have to have a fairly significant profit on the sale of the home in order to trigger the tax.

Update: found on factcheck.org - not the last word but usually reliable: http://www.factcheck.org/2010/04/a-38-percent-sales-tax-on-your-home/ It's a tax on unearned income, not a sales tax on homes as you pointed out. But if, as a married couple you PROFIT more than half a mil on the sale of your home, you're probably doing OK.

Posted by Julia Odom, Chattanooga Homes for Sale (Select Realty Professionals) almost 9 years ago
Thanks for the information! Do people stop buying gas because the government raises taxes? People will still buy and if they get taxed, oh well! 90% of the people will find a way around the tax though!
Posted by Matthew Mitchell, New Haven Real Estate Agent (Buyer's Capital Real Estate) almost 9 years ago

If you can dream it, he can tax it!  The NEW American way aka "hope and change".  How's that working out for you?

Posted by Margaret Woda, Maryland Real Estate & Military Relocation (Long & Foster Real Estate, Inc.) almost 9 years ago

I recently read that overall taxes are at their lowest level since 1950, don't know if it's true or not - http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2010-05-10-taxes_N.htm

Posted by David J. Lampe, Realtor - Web Savvy Denver (Your Castle Real Estate) almost 9 years ago

Thank you all for the comments... 

Julia - As I mentioned, this doesn't affect a lot of people... I also mentioned that it applied to all investment income.  But, it is very much of a 'camel's nose under the tent' moment.  Previously there was no medicare tax or other payroll taxes on investment income... now there will be.  What do you think are the chances it won't get ramped up?

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Thank you Lane for bringing this to our attention.  You are right. This will ultimately affect lots of people, including those that have jobs supplied by people making over $200K.

Posted by Jen Bowman, Realtor - Anna Maria Island & Bradenton FL (Keller Williams on the Water) almost 9 years ago

David - I went and read the link you posted.  Boy is THAT flawed.  To begin with, they only took into account personal income taxes.  That means that corporate taxes, which are really paid by individuals in the long run, are not included.  Also, 'user fees' and other taxes the government collects were not included. 

To be more realistic, maybe we should look at personal taxes as a percentage of GDP... 

Pretty obvious that people are paying a larger share of their income in taxes... remember, while direct income taxes have fallen, payroll taxes and everything else have all increased... 

And before you go off on the decrease in taxes under Bush, maybe you should check out total revenue...  The problem is spending.  The GOP went absolutely NUTS when Bush got elected and increased spending to unrealistic levels.  And then, when the Democrats took over Congress in 2006 and the Presidency in 2008, they made the GOP look tame... 

Taxing a few people that sell investments, including homes, isn't going to do diddly squat to fix the budget problems we are facing. 

Rather, stopping the orgy of spending in DC is the path to fiscal salvation.

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

First, let me say I am not in this bracket but do they (the democrats) really think the wealthy will not have the last word...and that word will keep our economy depressed for a long time.  They are truly ignorant or worse oblivious to the real world.  I am so afraid of where our living standards are going that we have encouraged our children...if it gets too bad to go to another country.  Look at the number of people who have moved already.  Look at what happened when a luxury tax was imposed on cars, boats, airplanes...companies and employees lost big time.  Once that gold spoon is in your mouth...you're not going to lose it and the wealthy CAN afford to protect their assets.

Posted by Linda Hinson (S & L Properties) almost 9 years ago

Hi Lane, I agree, spending is out of control!

Posted by David J. Lampe, Realtor - Web Savvy Denver (Your Castle Real Estate) almost 9 years ago

Ah yes, so now I have to worry about something else to put on my sellers net sheet while I'm trying to get OfficeMax and WalMart to give me their tax ID #'s so I can send them a 1099 for the 1099s I buy from officeMax and the WalMart ink cartridges I buy to print my 1099s.

Like good ole' Nancy Pelosi said "We'll have to pass the healthcare bill to find out what's in it"  Well slowly but surely we're finding out and frankly little or none of it has to do with health or healthcare reform.

Posted by Tammy Lankford,, Broker GA Lake Sinclair/Eatonton/Milledgeville (Lane Realty Eatonton, GA Lake Sinclair, Milledgeville, 706-485-9668) almost 9 years ago

Lane, we were discussing this today at a networking meeting I attended. Thanks for the update.

Posted by Michael Setunsky, Your Commercial Real Estate Link to Northern VA almost 9 years ago

Lane, thank you for doing the research for this post.  there are so many rumors that fly around, so its important to get to the truth. 

Posted by David Krichmar, DaveYourMortgageGuy.com (www.DaveYourMortgageGuy.com - Legend Lending) almost 9 years ago

Lane -- ..and there are plenty more 'Easter eggs' like this one in the law.  Hold on to your basket!

Posted by Barbara Altieri, REALTOR-Fairfield County CT Homes/Condos For Sale (RealtyQuest/Kinard Realty Group, Fairfield and New Haven County CT Real Estate) almost 9 years ago

The fact that health care plan was referred to as ObamaCare speaks volumes. Enough said.

 

Posted by John Elwell, You Deserve a Full-Time Agent, Not Reduced Results (CENTURY 21 Bill Nye Realty, Inc.) almost 9 years ago

John - What does it say, since it is speaking volumes?  I would say that not only was this not 'Enough said", but that you failed completely to speak to ANYTHING in the post.  I don't know if you support the President and his new taxes or if you are opposed... but that was basically a 'non-comment'...  You didn't really say anything.

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Sounds like another hidden way to penalize those who do well.

Posted by Roy Paeth, Just a regular guy helping real people! (Keller Williams Inspire) almost 9 years ago

The sad part of this is that we think $200,000 is a lot of money, but someday if won't be. Remember the ALT tax was only going to impact 155 household when it was introduced in 1969, so nobody complained about it. Now it impacts 90 million households and it's still growing, because it's not indexed for inflation. This new tax will be the same way, eventually it will impact most homeowners. Of course it's not nearly as impressive as the death tax at 55 percent.

 

Posted by Larry Brewer - Benchmark Realty llc (Benchmark Realty LLc) almost 9 years ago

I can't believe anybody thinks a household income of $200K is rich. It's not. It's enough to take a nice vacation, live in a descent house, be able to pay for your kids' college and to save enough to not be a burden on society when you retire. Those in that income bracket already pay more income tax, property tax, sales tax, gas tax and donate more than most. And they tend to use the public services they are supporting less than the average person. And I thought the promise was "no new tax on any family earning less than $250K." Now it's $200K. What will it be tomorrow? A VAT tax that will hit EVERYBODY?

Posted by Jackie Hawley, Southeast Michigan Real Estate (Coldwell Banker Professionals) almost 9 years ago

Thanks for the good information. It is very informative, and will allow us to educate our clients on the new guidelines.

Posted by Renee Thompson (Premier Sotheby's International Realty) almost 9 years ago

""But if, as a married couple you PROFIT more than half a mil on the sale of your home, you're probably doing OK."

So all those couples who worked ALL THEIR LIVES, paid their mortgage for 30 years...paid taxes on all they made, get screwed out of their RETIREMENT and it's ok with you Julie?

Just so it isn't you right?"

#1, my name is Julia, if you are going to make snide anonymous comments at least get my name right.

#2, my point, and I stand by it wholeheartedly, is that (assuming you are married), if you bought your home for $400,000 and later sold it for $1,000,000 for a net profit of $600,000 you would owe exactly $3,800 in taxes. Somehow I don't think that's going to take the luxury home market into the toilet as someone opined, OR screw them out of their retirement.

The post, as written, and especially as titled, is misleading and inflammatory.

Posted by Julia Odom, Chattanooga Homes for Sale (Select Realty Professionals) almost 9 years ago

Obama said everyone under $250,000 would not have any extra taxes - now here's a tax for people over $200,000. I wonder what else is hidden in that bill that will come to light down the road.

Posted by Sharon Alters, Realtor - Homes for Sale Fleming Island FL (Coldwell Banker Vanguard Realty - 904-673-2308) almost 9 years ago

Julia - It is factual... as written... and titled.  Sorry it isn't leftist enough for you... but it is factual.  I even mentioned that this tax also applied to other investment income.  You are welcome to point out any inaccuracies in the post. 

Ruthmarie - A few years ago... under Democrat leadership... there was a tax placed on "yachts".  It was a luxury item tax.  It decimated the luxury boat business in Florida and drove the manufacture of those boats offshore.  The jobs that went away weren't the jobs done by millionaires... they were the jobs done by average folks. 

deficit chart

And the money to pay down the deby isn't going to come from this... it is peanuts.  It is JUST to punish "the rich" for being wealthy.  The politics of envy don't work.  And there is NO way that the current spending spree that Congress and this President are on is going to fix the financial mess. 

And finally, when Congress reverted to the Democrats in 2007, the deficit was shrinking...  Unemployment was low...  But they didn't do so good... 

When Obama came in... the floodgates opening up. 

Putting punative taxes on people with wealth isn't going to solve the deficit.  Controlling spending is going to be the path... and the current 'leadership' isn't going to do what it takes.  The Republicans will either get scared and cut spending, or they will get turned out again.  This is NOT sustainable. 

BTW, Google the 1920 Depression...   President Harding reacted with massive cuts in spending and taxes, and turned the economy.  The Treasury Secretary, Herbert Hoover, wanted increases in taxes and spending.  He got his chance a decade later, and caused the Great Depression... although, had Roosevelt not 'doubled down' on Hoover's policies, it likely wouldn't have been as severe. 

Oddly, Obama doubled down on many of Bush's policies, even going as far as to hire many of the people behind Bush's policies... like Timothy Geithner...

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Very interesting Lane ... You are right ... There are so many things that could be hiden in 20,000 pages.  Keep us posted

Posted by Roland Woodworth, Q Realty - Power In Real Estate (Q Realty) almost 9 years ago

I hadn't heard about this and continue to consider it unfortunate that so many "little" unrelated things get added into these huge bills.

Posted by Christine Donovan, Broker/Attorney 714-319-9751 DRE01267479 - Costa M (Donovan Blatt Realty) almost 9 years ago

It is just another way to kill the economy and the real estate sales.

Posted by Elite Home Sales Team, A Tenacious and Skilled Real Estate Team (Elite Home Sales Team OC) almost 9 years ago

All the MORE reason for DEMS to be PUT OUT OF POWER of the PURSE in November....A CONSERVATIVE Federal Government can DEFUND this legislation by NOT FUNDING IT...

Posted by Wallace S. Gibson, CPM, LandlordWhisperer (Gibson Management Group, Ltd.) almost 9 years ago

The big issue here is when someone brings this up you should know what it says and who it effects. Do I think it sucks? Yes! It is unbelievable everything buried in this bill.

Posted by Surprise Arizona Realtor Jim Braun Sun City Grand Active Adult Communities, Surprise AZ real estate Phoenix West Valley (Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage Jim Braun Sun City Grand Az ) almost 9 years ago

I guess we will all have to work a little harder and smarter to earn our livings. With any luck this slowdown will weed out more of the less able agents and allow professional, competent and dedicated agents to continue to do well.

"The Treasury Secretary, Herbert Hoover, wanted increases in taxes and spending.  He got his chance a decade later, and caused the Great Depression... although, had Roosevelt not 'doubled down' on Hoover's policies, it likely wouldn't have been as severe."

Hoover, a brilliant economist, sat on his hands and did nothing following the stock market crash of 1929. Maybe if he had involved the federal government earlier, the depths and duration of the Great Depression could have been somewhat lessened.

Things are not great for all Americans right now and it is going to take time to right the ship. There will be false starts as we recover, but we will eventually recover. There will be industries developed to replace those that have been reduced. It will take investment, imagination, courage to fail and try again, and the support of the government - Democrats and Republicans - to make this happen.

Posted by Ed almost 9 years ago

From FactCheck.org (for what it's worth):

The truth is that only a tiny percentage of home sellers will pay the tax. First of all, only those with incomes over $200,000 a year ($250,000 for married couples filing jointly) will be subject to it. And even for those who have such high incomes, the tax still won't apply to the first $250,000 on profits from the sale of a personal residence - or to the first $500,000 in the case of a married couple selling their home.

We can understand how this misconception got started. The law itself is couched in highly technical language that only a qualified tax expert can fully grasp. (This provision begins on page 33 of the reconciliation bill that was passed and signed into law.) And it does say the tax falls on "net gain ... attributable to the disposition of property." That would include the sale of a home. But the bill also says the tax falls only on that portion of any gain that is "taken into account in computing taxable income" under the existing tax code. And the fact is, the first $250,000 in profit on the sale of a primary residence (or $500,000 in the case of a married couple) is excluded from taxable income already. (That exclusion doesn't apply to vacation homes or rental properties.)

The Joint Committee on Taxation, the group of nonpartisan tax experts that Congress relies on to analyze tax proposals, underscores this in a footnote on page 139 of its report on the bill. The note states: "Gross income does not include ... excluded gain from the sale of a principal residence."

And just to be sure, we checked with William Ahern, director of policy and communications for the nonprofit, pro-business Tax Foundation. "Some home sales would see a tax increase under this bill," Ahern told us, "but it would have to be a second home or a principal residence generating [a gain of] more than $250,000 ($500,000 for a couple)."

So there you have it. The sort of people who would have to pay the tax might include, for example:

  • A single executive making $210,000 a year who sells his $300,000 ski condo for a $50,000 profit. His tax on the sale of that vacation home would amount to $1,900, in addition to the capital gains tax he would have paid anyway.
  • An "empty nester" couple with combined income of over $250,000 a year who sell their $1 million primary residence to move to smaller quarters. If they cleared $600,000 on the sale, they would be taxed on $100,000 of the profit (the amount over the half-million-dollar exclusion). Their health care tax on the sale would amount to $3,800 over and above the usual capital gains levy.

However, a typical home sale would not incur any tax. In March, for example, half of all existing homes sold for $170,700 or less, according to the National Association of Realtors. Obviously, none of those sales could possibly generate a $250,000 profit, and so none would be subject to the tax.

Thus, for the vast majority, the 3.8 percent tax won't apply. The Tax Foundation, in a report released April 15, said the new tax on investment income (including real estate) "will hit approximately the top-earning two percent of families" when it takes effect in 2013.

Posted by Kris Hoch, ABR, e-PRO, CNHS, CSSN (RE/MAX Compass) almost 9 years ago

Lane,

Great post and congrats on the feature. I agree 100% with you on this. Taxes no matter what they are will put a burden on someone.

Larry

Posted by L. Ludlow, Team Ludlow Realty (Keller Williams Charlotte,NC Ballantyne Office) almost 9 years ago

And since this tax would only hit a couple per cent that makes it ok? So is it ok to drive past a house that looks like it's owned by a "rich" person and break in and take your "fair share?"

Posted by Jackie Hawley, Southeast Michigan Real Estate (Coldwell Banker Professionals) almost 9 years ago

Wow, this is news to me.  I wonder if I'll get a 3.8% tax credit when I sell my FL home at a huge loss?  Just kidding, I don't expect that.  But this seems very counter intuitive to the $500K (married) profilt exemption when you sell.  I want to make sure that I am understanding you correctly that this applies to primary residences, and not just investment properties?  Seems like there is a new tax on the 'wealthy' every day now - sigh. Thanks for the post Lane.

Posted by Sara Bonert, Real Estate Internet Marketing (Zillow) almost 9 years ago

Lane, I will keep this simple. This came to my attention last evening @ dinner with a RE Appraiser. His thought were in 2013 when this goes into effect who would fully retire (if he is not now). 200-250k is not a lot of money now adays. Tax on the people who hire the workers will stop these same  people from getting thier next job.

Keep in mind there are 2000+ pages in Health Care reform where this is located; What else is in the pipeling.

I venture to believe #14 does and is not really in our industry.

Great Post and on target!

Posted by Frank Rubi, FrankRubiRealEstate.com (Frank Rubi Real Estate, LLC) almost 9 years ago

WOW... Love it... I love looking back at history and seeing all the great nations that have taxed themselves into prosperity....

oh wait, i don't remember any! ;)

I don't think the yahoo's in WA will ever learn... but, we are to blame.. we sent them there!

We have become a passive nation... everyone should call their elected leaders and give them their 2 cents... just sayin...

Posted by James Baxter Encinitas Realtor (Realty Place) almost 9 years ago

Julia, can you please explain your math in your #36 post?  

The one where you are "making your point and standing by it wholeheartedly".  

How did you get to the $3,800 owed?  3.8% of $1,000,000.00 is $38,000.00 not $3,800.00!  

But if the tax is on the "profit", the profit in your own example of "$600,000.00 net profit" would be 3.8% of $600,000.00 which is $22,800.00, also not $3,800.00.  (also your "net profit" statement doesn't take into effect tax basis, holding costs, improvement costs, selling costs etc.).

Even if you are incorrectly assuming that only the profit over $200,000.00 is taxed and not the entire profit amount, which you don't state in your post, that would still be a $400k profit and a tax owed of $15,200.00, or if the tax is on the total sale price as you may believe, that is still $38,000.00 owed in your example, not "EXACTLY $3,800.00" as you incorrectly proclaim. 

Or am I missing something? Can you please explain how you got to only $3,800.00 owed in taxes in your own example? 

Before you accuse someone else of being "inflammatory and misleading", please check your own statements before you lose all credibility.  

At least you got your name right.

 

 

Posted by Jay Holland almost 9 years ago

New and/or increased taxes always have negative side effects such as hurting us working stiffs.

Posted by Jim McCormack, Nashville Short Sale REALTOR - Stop Foreclosure (Nashville Short Sale Specialist - Jim McCormack - Edge Advantage Realty, LLC - 615-784-EDGE (3343)) almost 9 years ago

The Beatles warned us that this would happen.

Posted by Jim Pirkle (Harvest Realty LLC) almost 9 years ago

My understanding of the provision is the tax is ONLY on the amount of gain above the current tax exempt threshold. So if a married couple is selling their primary residence at a $499,000 profit there is NO TAX. 

Posted by Tom Priester, Paradise Sharks (Paradise Sharks ) almost 9 years ago

@Jay Holland - your comment is EXACTLY why I commented that the post and title are misleading and inflammatory. Here's the math: $600,000 profit MINUS $500,000 exclusion for married couples = $100,000 x 3.8% = $3,800

And the reason I say that it is especially misleading as titled is that this is not a real estate transfer tax. Labeling that way is just asking the real estate community to get up in arms. The fact that Lane knows that isn't true (as he admits) and yet still titled the post that way is very troubling. I'm not leftist. I'm accuracyist.

Posted by Julia Odom, Chattanooga Homes for Sale (Select Realty Professionals) almost 9 years ago

Gradualism seems to be in play here. Lots of trial balloons get floated. Some stay, some don't. We're still in the early stages where Obama has campaign promises to keep but that window will soon pass and the spenders will say that nothing can last forever.

We have guests visiting from Germany. They reminded us nonchalantly that they pay 19% VAT on EVERYTHING. That tax started at around 1% and just kept getting added to. 

Posted by Dave Keys, Chief Search Strategist Real Estate SEO Expert (MOVE UP in Google Search Learn How Here) almost 9 years ago

This is all an urban myth.

There is no real estate tax in the Health Care bill.

The CBO and the EOMB have both said it is not true.

Let's all worry about getting jobs into our area and the real estate decline will reverse.

Posted by Fred Glick, Changing the Story in Real Estate & Mortgages (u s spaces, inc./arrivva, inc., u s loans mortgage, inc.) almost 9 years ago

I think it is about tranparency in Government. Why is a real estate tax buried in a Healthcare bill? Since the Healthcare bill was passed our health insurance has gone up 20%. Wish I could raise my fees 20%

Posted by Bill Reddington almost 9 years ago

So true Karen.  There are many little "gotchas" in this bill that have absolutely NOTHING to do with healthcare, but everything to do with limiting small business.  Sadly, many (including the media) have made a point of overlooking them because they "think" they are getting what they want.  

If you are running your personal real estate business as a business (I am not a broker, but I am incorporated as a sub-chapter S), beginning in 2012 you will be required to send a 1099 to ANY vendor you spend $600 or more with each year.  Office supplies/copiers/printers/computers from Staples? You'd better get their EIN.  Advertising, web placement/development, etc...  make sure you send them a 1099.  Just one more little bomb to fall on the small business owner.

 

 

Posted by Gayle Barton, Forsyth County Real Estate, Cumming GA Homes For Sale (404) 710-0204 (BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY Georgia Properties) almost 9 years ago

@Julia, thanks for putting this into perspective. Kudos to you!!

Posted by Anonymous almost 9 years ago

Jay, you are definitely missing something! Only $100,000 of that is subject to this tax. Check Kris's post at #46 to see just what you are missing.

Seems like a good way to negotiate a better deal for your buyer--Mr + Mrs Seller, you can sell to us for $500k profit and avoid any taxes on your profit over that.

Posted by Jill Ford (Keller Williams Realty of Pinehurst) almost 9 years ago

I'm always amused by the people who don't care about these taxes because they affect "the rich" not us little people.  I'm afraid they do very much affect the little people...the plumbers, handymen, decorators, stagers, contractors, roofers. landscapers and all the other people trying to survive in this economy.  I have friends and relatives who fall into that $200,000 income range and I can assure you they have cut back dramatically on things like home improvements, decorating services, landscaping, vacations, eating out and the list goes on.  Real people, like us, are affected by those decisions.  I don't know when you were last hired by a poor person, but I've always been hired by people making some decent money.  People who were willing to pay me to do jobs they didn't want to do or could not do.  When you start picking their pockets dry, guess what happens?  They stop hiring you and start making do without the home improvements, decorating, landscaping, eating out and going on vacation.  Yes, it does affect us little people too. 

Posted by Christine Carroll (Done in a Day Design, LLC) almost 9 years ago

It's good to see that some folks, like Kris Hoch in particular like their responses based in facts.  Obama has made it no secret that the top 2% in this country are going to pay more taxes.  In reality, they haven't paid their fair share in a while, so I'm good with that.  And I'm fine paying my taxes.  When I call a cop, I want a trained professional to show up.  When I need to go to a county office, I want them to be open during the work week, and I want the roads to be servicable.  I want our troops to have the right equipment for whatever job they're doing and I want our veterans treated with dignity.  And if I get into that top 2%, I will gladly pay that tax. 

It's peanuts really.  It's based on profit.  Is anyone really going to profit that much in this market that 3.8% of the $1.95 in appreciation in today's market is going to hurt them?  Net gain isn't going to be much for many years to come, certainly will rarely go over the threshold. 

Much ado about nothing.  Unless you're Blackstone or a REIT, then this is going to hurt.

Posted by Valerie Crowell, Broker Associate (Keller Williams) almost 9 years ago

Julia,

Thank you for the clarification. Since no mention to any $500,000 exemption was in Lane's article, a reference to that in your post would have been helpful to see where you coming from with your math.  Until Kris' #46 post, there wasnt any reference to that exemption being part of this tax anywhere, and I didnt get that in your example it was a primary residence.  Thank you for the clarification.  

Jay

Posted by Jay Holland almost 9 years ago

Jill, 

Thank you, I do see in Kris' post that the first $500,000 of a primary residence profit is exempt from this new tax, but I didnt see in Julia's post where it indicated this was a primary residence. I've got it now. Thanks.

Jay

Posted by Jay Holland almost 9 years ago

Just one more exciting new thing that we find out about this 2000 page bill.  So glad that they rammed this through without reading it.  Re-elect nobody in November. Fire them all.

Posted by Rob Arnold, Metro Orlando Full Service - Investor Friendly & F (Sand Dollar Realty Group, Inc.) almost 9 years ago

Thanks for looking into this and making it clear without prejudice.pimento

Posted by Peter Rhein almost 9 years ago

Valerie and Kris, 

Please be careful getting your information from factcheck.org. They are the "zillow.com" of the political world wide web.  

Jay 

Posted by Jay Holland almost 9 years ago

Thanks to Julia for trying to put a realistic prospective on this rant.

Thank you Lane for such an insightful post about real estate and trying to teach us political math.

Posted by Lee Walsh, Executive Talent Scout for Mortgage Professionals (SecurityNational Mortgage) almost 9 years ago

Interesting discourse.  Regardless of your political views, it drives home how important it is for all of us to keep on top (or try to) of what our legislators are doing. 

Posted by Susan Lehmkuhl, Associate Broker (Buy and Sell Smart Realty, LLC) almost 9 years ago
"We the people" need to realise that we voted these yahoo's into office and continue to allow them to not answer to "we the people" for what they do. "We the people" need to take back our country and vote into office poeple ofvalue to the office. (He elite believe this country is to large for poeple to join together and make a difference.
Posted by Marlina almost 9 years ago

I'd encourage everyone to read the bill and cite a specific section when stating that anything in the bill is fact or fiction.  I've read most of the bill - there are more taxes in it than I can quote here.  This bill has very little to do with healthcare, most of it is about taxes and micro-managing our businesses (NOT the economy).  If you want Soviet-style government, this is the first step!  Back to work, Comrades!!!

Posted by John Souerbry, Homes, Land & Investments (Cordon Real Estate) almost 9 years ago

Thanks for the post. I have heard alot of inaccurate comments about this. It will be good to have the facts!!

Posted by Elizabeth Perry almost 9 years ago

This kind of nasty surprise is exactly why so much of what's in that bill doesn't go into effect until after 2012 elections. Vote them out in November ... well, if you can find anybody better to vote for!

I really have to laugh at the link provided to the USA article above, that said taxes have dropped. Fiscal conservatives have said all along - cut taxes to get the economy moving and tax revenues increase. But guess what - if no one has a job, payroll tax revenue decreases. If no one spends money sales tax revenue decreases. So taxes have dropped because of high unemployment and lower spending. Yes, if you only read the headline you'll think its good news, but here's an excerpt ...

A drop in income now can trigger big tax breaks and sharply lower rates, sometimes falling to zero. 

• Sales tax. Consumers cut spending sharply in this downturn, thereby paying less in sales taxes. 

Posted by Joetta Fort, Independent Broker, Homes Denver to Boulder (The DiGiorgio Group) almost 9 years ago

Good post, interesting

Posted by Francisco Garcia, Jr., 480-277-2922 http://franciscogarciajr.com (FG Real Estate) almost 9 years ago

Laughable that the "Conservative Rebuplicans" are concerned about spending!!  Look at what your precisous Bush did with the Clinton surplus.  Thank you Julie for your post it is lonely to be the few that remember history in this business!!!

Posted by Casie almost 9 years ago

So, do we wonder why the IRS is going to enforce the healthcare bill???   This is a nightmare we will be living for years to come.  We all need to pray it is repealed.  Whether we know exactly how the tax will work at this moment or not, the fact that there are all kinds of 'easter eggs' hidden in the bill should make all of us nervous.  I'm thinking they are more along the line of rotten eggs...  

Posted by Doreen McPherson, Phoenix Arizona Real Estate ~ (Homesmart ~ Scottsdale ~ Tempe) almost 9 years ago
Clients in that market don't make a decision based on a tax or commission rate. If they want or need to sell, they are still going to sell if they aren't so upside down it's not funny. What we really need to be concerned with is the health of the " average america " residential market. For those clients, their home is the largest investment they will ever make, and as their wealth erodes, so does the economy, consumer confidence.
Posted by Heavy P almost 9 years ago

Great post Lane!  Now what about this "Wall Street Reform Bill" signed into law yesterday.  I've heard very little about it yet, but anytime I hear them talk about "Sweeping reform"  I become more than a little concerned about who's doing the sweeping and who's getting swept!  The control over the mortgages is what I am very concerned about.  The last thing our fragile housing market needs is another Government Agency determining who gets mortages and who doesn't.  I just can't believe how quickly the Federal Government is getting their hands on everything we do, and now it's almost going unnoticed to the average citizen, just like the taking over of the student loans, earlier this year, this latest piece of legislation looks to be another expansion of the Governments control over everything we do.  (And who's going to pay for this *Consumer Financial Protection Agency?)

Maybe you can give us your thought's on this legilation in one of your next posts?

Thanks again for all the information that you've shared and all the research you've done.

Randy

*"Consumer Financial Protection Agency that would be set up, to help further police the terms of credit cards, mortgages and more." - Jamie Dupree's Washington Insider

http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-washington-insider/2010/07/15/wall-street-reform/

Posted by Randy Poll (Greenridge Realty Inc.) almost 9 years ago

Wow... I fired up some people... 

Ed - Hoover did nothing?  Apparently you missed a few days of school.  Smoot-Hawley, National Credit Corporation, Federal Home Loan Bank Act, Emergency Relief and Construction Act, Reconstruction Finance Corporation... 

Kris - Only a tiny percentage of home owners would pay the tax...  And the original income tax affected 100 families.  The original Alternative Minimum Tax only affect a few hundred families.  And while in the post I specifically state that it won't affect a lot of people directly, it will affect a lot of people... you seem to feel that saying that it only affects a few people makes it ok. 

Jay - Julia's math is currently correct... although there are a lot of things that could change between now and the implementation... including changing the exclusion threshhold (which has been on the table in Washington for a few years) and the rate... and the method of calculation. And her calculation assumes that the property is a primary residence.  Many of the properties will not be primary residences... 

Julia - It is a tax, and it applies to the transfer of real estate meeting specific criteria. 

Fred - Sorry, you can deny reality, but it will still catch up to you. 

John - The income threshhold is $200k... the exclusion for a primary residence is $250k. 

Valerie - The 'Fair Share' argument doesn't hold up to reality.  Feel free to Google the percentage of taxes paid by the various quintiles of income earners vx the amount of income earned.  Also, feel free to look at the rates paid by the various quintiles.  You will see that 'the rich' pay a much higher percentage of their income in taxes, pay a greater share of taxes and consume fewer tax dollars... 

 

 

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

I wouldn't fall for the "this won't affect me" fallacy.  Everything hits the little guy.  Having owned a business in the recent past (sold it July 2009 while I knew I still could), I can tell you that every cost the gov't puts onto a business owner is paid for by the little guy. 

If they take more money from the person making $200K (or family making $250K) then they have less disposable income to spend so businesses suffer.  If the business owners lose 3.8% on their investments they have less to put back into their businesses.

A business is in business to make money.  If taxes go up they either raise their prices or layoff staff to reduce costs (or just get fed up and close the doors).  Who pays?  It's ALWAYS the little guy. 

You may not pay this tax directly but, trust me, you will pay it!

Posted by Gayle Barton, Forsyth County Real Estate, Cumming GA Homes For Sale (404) 710-0204 (BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY Georgia Properties) almost 9 years ago

Kris Hoch: Thank you for a coherent response.  

After 8 years of turning a government in surplus to the largest deficit in history we still aren't rid of the mindless knee jerk "cut the taxes for the wealthy" mentality and "cut government regulation" mentality that got us into the mess the current congress and president are trying to get us out of.

30 years ago (back when I identified myself as a Republican) I wrote a paper arguing the "2 party" system was flawed because the party out of power had an incentive to see the party in power fail.  For a long time I thought I was wrong about that.  Not any more.  Now, the party out of power is willing to destroy the country to try to prove the party in power is wrong.   I was right 30 years ago. 

Deceptions like the 3.8% tax myth that are continuously spread by people out to destroy the country to regain power are rampant.   Seeing the mentality of those involved - I expect it to continue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Posted by Paul Howard, Paul Howard Realty, 856-488-8444 (Paul Howard, Broker, Paul Howard Realty 856-488-8444) almost 9 years ago

Thanks for clearing that up.  I guess it's not a tax, just revenue enhancement.  Hope you do not mind if I re-blog.

Posted by Steve Moore (Steve Moore/David Massey Real Estate) almost 9 years ago

Interesting post, thanks Lane.  However, I would love to see folks commenting or debating more about actual facts and using less political labels like 'leftists' and 'methuglicans' or anything similar.  

You are free to say whatever you want, of course, but it does not help your case or the general discourse to be using the labels and attacking people (directly or indirectly) for what they believe in.  News flash! Americans disagree on the way government should work, and taxes, etc....  That's great, but we're all professionals here, and probably better off if we stay away from the name calling and attacking going on.

 

Posted by Manuel Monserrate almost 9 years ago

In the state of Washington all sellers already pay a 1.78% Sales tax on their homes. no matter what.  This wouldreally hurt sales, and the affordability of people selling their homes... I will keep an eye on this one

Posted by Ken's Home Team LLC. | 360.609.0226 | Portland, OR & Vancouver, WA Real Estate Team, - SOLD IS OUR FAVORITE 4 LETTER WORD - (Ken's Home Team LLC.) almost 9 years ago

Casie - Please tell me which year Clinton reduced the deficit...  Any 'surplus' he created was merely an accounting trick. And is the solution for out of control spending by Republicans even more out of control spending by Democrats?  Obama will increase the deficit by as much in 3 years as Bush did in 8... AND, please keep in mind that the economy was in recession when Bush became President.  Remember the huge stock market 'tech bubble' follwed by the 9/11/2001 terroist attacks? 

AND...

If we take the focus off of primary residences, we might notice that this is going to affect a lot of investment properties.  Currently, many investors depreciate their properties , meaning that the value of improvements actually declines over time.  Because of that, and the fact that many of these investors may sell multiple properties in a single year, these investments will be taxed at higher rates than they currently are... as it is, their will be subject to a Capital Gains tax that will rise from 15% to 20%... 

Investment properties are NOT subject to the $250k/$500k exclusion, so investorss may be paying taxes on the first dollar of profit. 

So Julia - If an investor is selling a rental property that he has been holding for retirement for $100,000, with a land value of $25,000, which has had the improvements depreciated, he will owe $17,850 in taxes under the new laws v $11,250 for the current rates.  My math shows that to be a $6600 increase in 2013 v 2010.  $2850 is this new tax... 

How will that affect the cost of rentals for lower income people that rent properties?

 

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

What a great post Lane!  Love all the comments too.  I personally have worried about the government taking away the profit exclusion on our primary (not that that would effect us today with all of the losses, but eventually).  What seems little today...may just very well be the start of something bigger.  And I agree with Gayle #87 about everyone being affected. 

 

 

Posted by Gary & April Greer, Real Estate Professionals (Century 21 Wright) almost 9 years ago

Before getting too riled up about this subject, you should check the link to fact check that Julia provided. This tax is going to affect only the very, very wealthy. I doubt if it is going to have any trickle down, slow down effect that was alluded to in the article.

Posted by Jay almost 9 years ago

Interesting that the desire is to impose new taxes to fund new programs rather than to use that additional revenue to address the deficit. 

Posted by Tony and Suzanne Marriott, Associate Brokers, Serving Scottsdale, Phoenix and Maricopa County AZ (BVO Luxury Group @ Keller Williams Arizona Realty) almost 9 years ago

Interesting comments from independent business owners and amazing how some believe that additional taxes regardless of who must pay them is acceptable. Keeping more of the money you earn to buy what you need and want not only grows the economy but grows your personal wealth too.

Where do jobs come from, certainly not from people without money, so why are states like California going bankrupt? People with money, businesses that must maintain profitability to remain competitive are leaving the state and taking their money and their opportunities elsewhere.

It's been said, that here are two certainties in our life, death and taxes, so now Americans are being taxed to death.

Jay, #54, I believe Julia used the $500k exemption to arrive at the $3,800.00 tax calculation.

My challenge is to encourage two term limits for politicians and to vote out incumbents regardless of party in November. Sometimes when I want something, I have to wait until circumstances change unlike this Congress that is spending money they don't have, thus jeopardizing our wealth, our children, granchildren and our nation.

By the way, beginning 2011, any employer contribution to an employee benefit plan will be taxed up to 3.8% and rises every year till 2014 and the employee is the taxpayer, so our liberal Congress isn't targeting just the wealthy, they target everybody that earns income. That means you too.

Posted by Kimo Jarrett, Pro Lifestyle Solutions (WikiWiki Realty) almost 9 years ago


With housing prices so low...and fortunately for me, I have plenty of equity in my home I bought 10 years ago. But....if I move, my property taxes double (Love Prop 13) and apparently now there will be a tax. I'm not buying the new home..I'm staying where I am, and floating in my pool. So are many, many, many others who could be out there moving the market.

Raising taxes ALWAYS leads to a slower economy, less jobs, less tax revenue (no jobs, no income to tax) and people will change behavior. This is apparently what the Dems don't understand. I guess they think we are all so stupid that we will continue to do things the same way, spend the same, earn the same...and happily hand over more of our money. We just don't do it that way.

I'm doing ok....Julia....and won't pay the tax, because I won't sell my house, until after 2012, when hopefully this will all just be a bad dream.

Posted by Karen Fiddler, Broker/Owner, Orange County & Lake Arrowhead, CA (949)510-2395 (Karen Parsons-Fiddler, Broker 949-510-2395) almost 9 years ago
Manuel - Nice post!
Posted by Heavy P almost 9 years ago

The U.S. ObamaCare Health Tax Bill passed and signed into law several months ago indeed has news taxes for people in the higher income tax brackets.  This was strongly supported by President Obama and people who believe that the transfer of wealth from the rich and successful to the those less fortunate is needed.

Posted by Harrison K. Long, REALTOR , GRI, Broker associate, Attorney (HomeSmart, Evergreen Realty) almost 9 years ago

I've seen a lot of comments on both sides.  Bottom line, a "little tax" here, a "little tax" there is still money going to the government for "redistribution."  In a free Republic, individuals are responsible for the "distribution" of their resources - people with money create jobs which creates more money.

As for blaming Bush or Obama, figure it out!  They are all career politicians and IT DOESN"T MATTER WHO DID IT!  Yes, Bush spent a fortune of money we don't have WITH THE CONSENT OF A DEMOCRATIC CONTROLLED CONGRESS (In case you don't remember, the House of Reps. is responsible for ALL laws controlling budgets - not the President!)  Obama has TRIPLED in less than 18 months the amount Bush accumulated in 8 years.

As Americans, we CANNOT afford ANYTHING at this point and "little taxes" here, "little taxes" there, will not help - the credit cards are spent and the "bankruptcy papers" are being prepared.  Our ONLY hope is to get control of the checkbook (House of Representatives and hopefully the Senate) and STOP this insanity now!

Regardless of your political leanings, get involved!  You can no longer be a "sunshine patriot" (google the term but bottom line it means loving American only when things are going well).  FIGHT for the Republic, FIGHT for the U.S. Constitution, FIGHT for your occupation, FIGHT for your business, FIGHT for your community, FIGHT for your family, and FIGHT for yourself!

We are fortunate to have been born in the GREATEST country in the history of the world, and we are allowing unscrupulous people to bring it down!  STOP THE INSANITY!  Educate yourself on the past and current events!   Find a way to make your voice heard, make the phone calls, send the emails and VOTE in people who will follow the Constitution and stop this "death by a thousand cuts." 

Our Country and way of life depend on people like us!  Make your life count and stop standing on the sidewalk watching everyone go by!  Put on your hat, step off the sidewalk, and join the parade!

Posted by Ruth Fennell almost 9 years ago

OMG - you mean to tell me the tax man is going to STEAL $1,999 Dollars of MY HARD EAENED $400,000 profit that I will make on this place when I fix it up and sell it?

That settles it.  I was going to hire a couple of them little brown or black boys to fix up this place up.  They were willing to work day & night for sub standard wages & in substandard conditions and I was willing to hire them because I couldn't get any white guys to even show up for a bid.  But now that I find out that, even though I'm avoiding Social Security Tax, unemployment tax, Medicare tax that every other employer has to pay, if them people in the white house are going to stick it to me with this outrageous $1,999 tax, I'm just not going to sell!! 

Same thing goes for that yacht I was going to buy from that guy with the funny accent.

Now I understand why it's the party of NO!!  Where can I join.  NO! Everybody knows, this tax will absolutely kill the economy.  If a guy can't make a clear $400,000 that he is entitled to as opposed to the messily $398,001 that he'll make due to this communist, dictator tax, he just won't sell.   I'm proud of my party and they are backing me up to the hilt on this.  They have even told me it is a excellent business decision.    

Hell I even got invited to a bondage party & they are trying to fly me out there on a new private jet except there is a slight problem with some kind of reporting that they assure me is OK.  So I don't think they are terribly out of line tapping me for a 20K donation.  After all look what they are trying to save me.  Look at what they are trying to save the other .002% of the people that are in the same boat as me.

I love America - you can tell - I have a flag in my front yard, on me eddy biddy 48 ft. cruiser, my vacation home I built in Brazil (the taxes are really really low there - they do have a lot of trashy people that live in little huts though) and hell, I even ware a red, white & blue hat at these rallies where I can carry my 9MM. - Yep I'm ready for all them commies that are trying to tell me that are trying to take over my country. - I proudly claim that this is MY 2nd Amendment remedy.

Here it is folks, this is what America is all about!!  I'm all for catering to us .002% - We should get special attention.  After all we are responsible for generating nearly .005% of the total tax revenues.  

Posted by Terry Kempf (4114 Info Service LLC) almost 9 years ago

Lane in response to your #39 post.  You are right on target with how taxing the so called rich hurts the working stiff.  My son worked for Sea Ray boats in Florida.  He no longer has a job thanks to the taxes on the rich.  I guess he will have to get a government job now since that is the only organization that is seeing any growth.  According to the Bureu of Labor Statistics "Private Sector Jobs Decline while Government Jobs Increase".  The now famous Shirley Sherrod said this to the audience at an NAACP convention, "You've heard of a lot of layoffs. Have you heard of anybody in the federal government losing their job? That's all I need to say."  Obviously Shirley recognizes that government jobs are secure and continue to receive pay raises while the private sector is seeing layoffs and wage cuts.  Wasteful government spending is bringing this country to its knees.  The key to our economic recovery is in fact dependent on government.  Smaller government that is.

Posted by Lucien Vaillancourt, Jacksonville Florida Real Estate (Native Sun Realty, Inc.) almost 9 years ago

Paul - As I asked Casie previously, let me know what year Clinton created an actual surplus.  Would you like a hint?  Here is the Treasury Dept site you can use to find it... 

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

This is a super-important post.  Thanks for alerting us.  Can you please cite the passage or provide us with a link?

Posted by Gerard Falzon, Rental Property Expert, Investment Property Expert (- Gianni Property Group - Cary, NC) almost 9 years ago

THE RED COATS ARE COMING, THE RED COATS ARE COMING...... 

Posted by Nogui Aramburo, Real Estate Professional in the Raleigh Area (Linda Craft & Team, REALTORS®) almost 9 years ago

For those of you keeping track at home, only one refererence to Marxist, none to Socialism or Communism yet.

I love to throw down a good political rant, but have the business part of my brain is confused:  I don't understand the premise that this would hurt the market in the near future.  

For the next few years...why wouldn't you see more transactions if you marketed correctly?  For anyone who would trigger the tax if they sold in 2013 or later, wouldn't that push up those transactions into 2011-2012?  Similar to the FTHB credit, it shifted transactions forward on the calendar. 

Long-term...I fully agree that, if not inflation indexed, it would be like AMT and apply to a lot of people in a realtively short amount of time. I get that.  But how would that not help generate more real estate transactions?

Using the "someday due to inflation $250k won't be a lot of money" logic....but eventually this creates a "beat the tax" criteria for upgrade buyers, doesn't it? 

After you hit the profit maximum, any appreciation is reduced by 3.8%--the tax on those profits.  If 'normal' appreciation is 4%, that would mean a homeowner is effectively earning an after-tax appreciation of 0%.  Rich people don't play that game.  They move and reset their cost basis to go back into the tax-free zone of $250k/$500k profit.  3.8% on a $800k home is $30k a year worth of reasons to move.  Paying 5% to sell a home and buy a new one breaks even in 15 months.

 

Maybe that whole thing was crazy.  I'm struggling today...resolved not engage in A/R partisan bickering.  Think I almost chewed a hole in my lip reading the comments :)

 

Posted by Chris Richter (Wintrust Mortgage) almost 9 years ago

Mea culpa.

Yeah, that first part made sense about the forward shift of transactions.  The second part made a lot of sense in my head but sort of crumbles if you actually run the numbers.

The whole house appreciates by $30k, but you only pay tax of $1140....not quite the same break even calculation when you do it wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

Posted by Chris Richter (Wintrust Mortgage) almost 9 years ago

Does it really surprise you that they would slide as many taxes in as possible.  Hopefully we can put a stake through the heart of this monster before it takes effect.

Posted by Gene Riemenschneider, Turning Houses into Homes (Home Point Real Estate) almost 9 years ago

First I do like Julia's link to FactCheck.   I believe it presents more objective information.  

Second, does anyone know if the tax itself is the result of an expiring piece of legislation that went in place under George Bush's administration ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States ) that exempted certain Captital Gains. 

Posted by Tim Bradford, NMLS 250013 almost 9 years ago

The State of Oregon is attempting to pass a Transfer Tax  - as I bet some other states are - so although this may not be a Federal Law or Tax it is very real in our local areas.  Oregon has missed this next election but are working hard to have this on the 2011 election ballot.  It is my understanding that once the state enacts this tax the county and city are capable of doing so without an election - this last statement may not be true as this is completely new to all of us. So, before you start spewing this is not true you might check your own area and see if this is something your state or local area is attempting to do.  Some states, such as California already have a transfer tax.  From the research I did on what Oregon is proposing it is pretty steep and is currently written to be appliciable everytime a deed transfers - meaning even for re-finance, trusts and so on.  Where California is only when the property is sold. 

 

before you dismiss this check your own area for how true or untrue this is for your state.

Posted by Thesa Chambers, Principal Broker - Licensed in Oregon (Fred Real Estate Group) almost 9 years ago

All I gotta say is thank goodness for FactCheck.org.

Posted by Sina Mollaan almost 9 years ago

4114 - If you didn't live in the property 3 of the last 5 years as a primary residence, then your Medicare tax for selling would be...  $15,200... and your Cap Gains tax would be $80,000.  That owuld be a total of $95,200.  Currently your tax for that property's cap gain would be $60,000.

That extra $35,200 could produce an entire tax payer...

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Remember, someone or group of people elected these people.  They are our current government and in the majority.  If we don't like what is happening, then it is our responsibility to get out and vote our voices - whatever side you are on.  One of the few things we can do as citizens is to vote (and serve on a jury).  

I personally am against everything that is going on, but rather than complain, I take action by supporting candidates that support my views and hope that they get elected.  I start at the local level - with city council and mayor, move up to the state level and then finally the federal level.  In addition, I support lobby groups that support my interests as well.

so...get out, vote, and do something to improve things not just for ourself, but for all of America!

Posted by Suzanne Feinberg almost 9 years ago

Tim - The new Medicare tax is a result of the Obama Health Care plan...  It isn't George Bush's fault.  The increase in the Cap Gains tax is because the GOP didn't have the backbone to make their tax reductions permanent. 

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

That's 3.8% of profits in excess of $500k for a couple and $250k for an individual.  Chill everyone.

Posted by TIM MONCRIEF, Over 2,000 homes sold….. (Keller Williams Realty) almost 9 years ago

Tim - That exclusion ONLY applies to a principle residence. 

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Didn't Nancy Pelosi say something to the effect that they have to pass the legislation so that they can see what is in it?

Posted by Don Humphrey, Coldwell Banker (Coldwell Banker-homes for sale in Vancouver, WA) almost 9 years ago

Lane's comment #120 is yet another reason to doubt his "fair" approach to issues. The reason the Bush tax cuts are expiring is not because the Republican's lacked spine. It's because they didn't have the votes. The Republicans used reconciliation, a rule designed to reduce the deficit, to increase the deficit. In order to do this they had to not expand the deficit outside the ten year budget window. They intentionally planned it to end in 2012 as a part of their budget sleight of hand. Also, if they would have revealed the size of the long term deficit being created, they probably would have been laughed out of the "fiscally responsible" hall of fame.  I love a good debate, but we have to share the same facts.

Posted by Dave Roberts (Healdsburg Sotheby's International Realty) almost 9 years ago

If Tim is correct, I think that resolves 90% of the issue as far as how it might impact the sale of high end homes.  Investment homes don't make as much sense under the new tax structure.

Tim or Lane....could either of you provide the exact source o your information so we can all read it?

 

Posted by Randy McMullin (AmStar Mortgage Network) almost 9 years ago

We were told that the Healthcare Reform Act was NOT a new tax.  Yet, the right of the Federal Gevernment to lay and collect taxes is being used to ensure that everyone participates AND the kind folks at the IRS are tasked with enforcement.

How is this not a tax again??

Posted by John almost 9 years ago

Wow- People love to jump on the band wagon. I agree with Julia in Chattanoga and Kris. Look a little deeper and as Kris states most people  won't be affected. Sorry if you average client is making over $ 250K year and is netting more than $ 500K on a sale then congradulations they in the top 1% of Americans.

I believe you will see this small group of people paying more in taxes AND I don't think the average JOE is going to really care. I agree taxes can be burdensome but let's be REAL FOLKS we are ALL going to pay more to support 20+ years of government mismanagement.

 

 

Posted by Anonymous almost 9 years ago

Wow- People love to jump on the band wagon. I agree with Julia in Chattanoga and Kris. Look a little deeper and as Kris states most people  won't be affected. Sorry if you average client is making over $ 250K year and is netting more than $ 500K on a sale then congradulations they in the top 1% of Americans.

I believe you will see this small group of people paying more in taxes AND I don't think the average JOE is going to really care. I agree taxes can be burdensome but let's be REAL FOLKS we are ALL going to pay more to support 20+ years of government mismanagement.

Posted by Mark Smith (Cherry Creek Properties, LLC) almost 9 years ago

I love the post and the information -- keep us updated.  Great information to pass along to my "high end" people. You have my respect and attention. 

Posted by Anne Edwards Johnson, Austin Realtor | HookemhomesATX (512)917-5260 (JP and Associates) almost 9 years ago

Lane,

This is a great post in that is spurs thoughtful debate and causes us to think, if for no other reason.  The responses are good too.

I heard about another little easter egg today that I was unaware of and have not verified.  Anybody else know about the new provision requiring one to register a purchase of gold? 

It's a 'BRAVE NEW WORLD'.  Makes me a little sentimental for the old one.

Good Luck!

Posted by Cliff Jones (KW Commercial - Keller Williams Realty International) almost 9 years ago

Dave - Please feel free to research the federal government tax revenues before and after the Bush tax cuts.  I already know the answer... revenues jumped sharply when the tax cuts kicked in... just as they had for Kennedy and Reagan.  The problem during the Bush years was SPENDING.  The problem during the Obama years is SPENDING.  Your "Fair Approach" is in doubt at least as much as mine. 

Anon - As long as the government is charging more to someone else, it's ok, right?  Remember, the income tax was 1% and only applied to a few people...  Governments grow and become more restrictive until the people put a stop to it...

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

And for those asking, it is Section 1402 of The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010, the Unearned Income Medicare Contribution

 

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

As Julia pointed us to FactCheck.org, they say it will only apply to the top 2% of income earners. So I don't deal with these people or know any, and think this is a tempest in a teapot.

Posted by Carolyn Roland almost 9 years ago

Carolyn - Since real estate agents make up less than 1% of the population, should there be a special tax for us?  What about a special tax for car dealers?  How about a special tax for lawyers?  Doctors?  Housewives?  23 year olds? 

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

It's unfortunate that our government can't just simplify the tax code so that as a society we aren't wasting so much energy figuring out how much tax is owed instead of more economically impactful activity.  Good explanation of the tax the Washington Post too: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/15/AR2010071506964.html

That being said I don't see this tax changing people's decision making in a real estate transaction.

Posted by Jamie Test almost 9 years ago

Hi Lane,

Thank you for bring this subject up. I have heard of this from another Realtor and I did write to my senator and ask about it but she never respond back (go figure).

I know obama did not want the capatiol gains taken out so this is his way of getting it back in but making it look like it is for the health care system. We are in a world of hurt with this so called health care. 

Posted by Zoe Horlick, Buying and Selling,its all about YOUR needs (Schwab Realty, Inc) almost 9 years ago

I agree with many of the comments here, however, I wish that people weren't using this as an opportunity to bash Democrats as a whole!  I do favor Dems, although I don't care to call myself by any official politican terminology-siding with anyone.  Not a great fan of our current president, though I respect him and his family. The reality is that politics/politicians on many levels, INCLUDING Republicans, have been harsh! Face it!  Neither is great or perfect, but one seems to suit you in particular better.  On a more specific note to this blog, I also disagree with this decision, as far as my knowledge will allow me to understand this topic. I don't believe it is jusitified, no matter how many pretty words the president or other government officials use.  I'm thankful for any positive and sincere attempts that our leaders may have to restore our society, but this is just not "hott"! :) 

And I so agree with : 

"Carolyn - Since real estate agents make up less than 1% of the population, should there be a special tax for us?  What about a special tax for car dealers?  How about a special tax for lawyers?  Doctors?  Housewives?  23 year olds?" 

HAVE A PRODUCTION DAY IN YOUR REAL ESTATE ACTIVITIES, EVERYONE!

Posted by Cheriamor Houston, ADPR, CNE (Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage) almost 9 years ago

Lane - you do have your facts - a lot of detailed information. The tax may not affect a ton of people for now but be assured there is more a comin'.

Posted by Anonymous almost 9 years ago

Perhaps it's only fair for the very richest among us to pay more taxes.  I know that sounds crazy to some folks, but take into account these figures:

"the richest 1% of earners collected 8% of national income in 1973. "By 2006, the top 1% got nearly 23% of the pie, the highest proportion since 1929, " he writes. Moreover, the richest 1% now earns more than the bottom 50% of Americans. During almost exactly the same period, the pay gap between the top 100 CEOs and workers rose from 45 to 1 in 1970 to Himalayan proportions in 2006, reaching 1,723 to 1"

article here

It's obvious that the very rich pay most of the taxes....they have most of the money! 

To claim that the rich are being fleeced by the government is a bit of a stretch though, given the massive movement of money from the middle class to the upper class over the past 30-40 years. 

Also, when I first heard this "news" elsewhere, it came in an e-mail prefaced with this distinguishing message:

Under the new health care bill - did you know that all real estate transactions are now subject to a 3.8% Sales Tax?  The bulk of these new taxes don't kick in until 2013 (presumably after Obamas re-election).  You can thank Nancy, Harry and Barack and your local Democrat Congressman for this one.  If you sell your $400,000 home, there will be a $15,200 tax.  This bill is set to screw the retiring generation who often downsize their homes.  Is this Hope & Change great or what?  We can vote the bums out in November and demand that they eliminate the bill or at the very least defund it.  Then in 2012 repeal it.
Oh, you weren't aware this was in the Obamacare bill? Guess what, you aren't alone. There are more than a few congressman that aren't aware of it either. AND, there are a few other surprises lurking.

Maybe it's just me, but I found that delivery to be off-putting, and a good example of how the "tea party" types will take something with a grain of truth and blow it up to giant proportions, to incite fear and worse. 

Our Realtor Association manager replied to the e-mail with the following:

It is a hoax! Here is the NAR information.

 

Business Report
No 4.0% "Sales Tax" on Home Sales In Recently Enacted Health Reform Bill

Contrary to reports and newspaper articles circulating widely on the Internet, there is not a 4.0% "sales tax" or "transfer tax" on the sale of a home included in the recently signed health care reform bill. The analysis underlying these reports is incorrect and fails to take into account the interplay of the bill's provisions with already existing real estate tax laws that remain unchanged.

What was included in the health bill is a provision that imposes a new 3.8% Medicare tax for some high income households that have "net investment income." Any revenue collected by the tax is dedicated to the Medicare hospital insurance program. This new tax will only apply to households with Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) of more than $200,000 for individuals or more than $250,000 for married couples. Since capital gains are included in the definition of net investment income, an additional tax obligation might result from the sale of real property.

In the case of the sale of a principal residence, the existing $250,000/$500,000 exclusion from capital gains on the sale of a principal residence remains unchanged. Consequently, even when the AGI limits are met, the new tax would not be applied to all capital gains that result from the sale of a home. Rather, it would only apply to any home sale gain realized in excess of the $250K/$500K existing primary home exclusion that pushes the filer's AGI over the $200K/$250K adjusted gross income limit.

The new Medicare tax will not take effect until January 1, 2013.

For more information on the new Medicare tax, please consult NAR's Health Reform Q&A on this and other provisions of the new health reform law located at:

www.realtor.org/healthreform

Posted by Watts Carr (EXIT Homeplace Realty) almost 9 years ago

Interesting Info - thanks!

Posted by Kelly Stevens (Rainier Title) almost 9 years ago

Lane and Everyone, 

First let me say, people believe what they want to believe.   Very few are willing to research for themselves the fact versus the hype or myth.   Julia did a good job in adding to the facts and I commend her for that. 

I do not like the Taxes I pay, however most importantly I do not like the way the government spends money.  I did not like the $8,000 Real Estate Stimulus because I did not believe it helped the people that needed it.  Overall I believe most realtors wanted it to continue.   If that is what you want, ask yourself the real question, Do you want more taxes and if you do who should be taxed. 

Finally, DO NOT Believe what I say and also do not believe what Lane or even Julia says, do your own research and deside for yourself the truth.  Remember this is a soapbox and you need to verify what is said.   Be a leader not a follower merely because you "WANT TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE" 

Posted by Tim Bradford, NMLS 250013 almost 9 years ago

Go Public Option! It's good for the country. It's good for the economy. It's good for American competitiveness. It's good for the American people. And if it's good for my Mother it's good for me.

Posted by Robert Pfeiler (Legacy International Realty) almost 9 years ago

Watts - Did you look to see what percentage of the taxes they pay? 

"the richest 1% of earners collected 8% of national income in 1973. "By 2006, the top 1% got nearly 23% of the pie, the highest proportion since 1929, " he writes.

I didn't immediately find the 2006 numbers, but did find 2004 and 2007... 

  • 2004 - the top 1% earned 19% of the income and paid 36.9% of the taxes.  
  • 2007 - the top 1% earned 22.8% of the income and paid 40.4% of the taxes. 

source

Oh, and from the same source... which uses IRS numbers... 

The top 1% pay an effective rate of 22.45% while the bottom 50% pay an average of 2.99%.

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Robert - No.  No.  No.  No... maybe it rocks for your mom, but that doesn't mean it is good for anyone else.  Please keep your comments on target. 

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

After reading Lane's unbiased topic and the oh so many comments, al i can say is,,

It's not going to affect that many people. I am not religious but I know many Conservatives are Christians..what happend to giving to people who have less?? Hello people? Its not giving them"stuff" its giving them healthcare services. Every person deserves that. I believe one of the reasons why the rest of the world is not pro American is due to greed.

I am not saying I agree with everything our current administration is doing but, to me, he/they are trying to get us out of the mess we have been in.

 Geez..lets not forget how we got in this mess..

I will be in the minority here but thats OK,..personally, I hate politics and politicians. :)

a few quotes;

"If you wish to experience peace, provide peace for another." The Dalai Lama

"If you have much, give of your wealth; If you have little, give of your heart"..

Posted by suzanne welch (Coldwell Banker) almost 9 years ago

That's all we would need.  Realtors®, homeowners, and banks have suffered so much.  I wish the goernment would just try to do something positive to help all of us.

Posted by Sandra J Steele almost 9 years ago

Yeah, I saw that Lane, and as I said "It's obvious that the very rich pay most of the taxes....they have most of the money!" 

Did you see that the top 1% makes as much money as the bottom 50%?

Posted by Watts Carr (EXIT Homeplace Realty) almost 9 years ago

Thank goodness for the comments of Julia, Kris, Fred, Jon, Valerie, Dave, Paul, Tim, Michael, Sina and 4114 Info!   I was beginning to think there was no one in the real estate business except Repubs!  This post has produced comments indicative of a crowd mentality. I'm surrounded in the South by people who don't want to get the facts or think for themselves and just repeat what those around them say.

The blog and most of the comments are just more political trash talk from folks who support the Dopes of Nope!  They're not ashamed of their lies or their hypocrisy.   You know, the folks who apologized to BP, that's the party wanting to "takeover" (one of their favorite words) the government.

Without more taxes, how are we going to pay for the two BUSH/CHENEY wars and rebuilding of an entire nation destroyed by the invasion from the cowboy from Texas, based on a lie?  You know, those wars that Bush did not itemize on the federal budget?   Guess he thought the American public was too dumb to notice.  Guess some of them were.

Our national debt grew monumentally under Ronald Regan and George Bush. Check this out:  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#38316915.  Yes, Ronald Regan, Republican martyr, author of "trickle-down economics".   How's that trickle-downy stuff workin' for ya, American Middle Class?

If the Republicans hadn't conspired and clumped together like manure to oppose everything - even their own proposals and ideas, the Healthcare legislation (SHOULDA BEEN CALLED INSURANCE REFORM BILL) could have been a good/better law.  But, having no regard for anything but their own job security, least of all the young, the elderly, the sick and the unemployed, they chose to stand for NOTHING!  Republican lawmakers want this administration to fail at any cost.  Whatever they do that is favorable to America might make the Democratic Party look good, don't you see?  Heaven forbid that should happen!

Everyone should know by now that those who follow FOX Network Channel don't want the truth - they only want to rant and rave.  They enjoy anger.  They believe the end justifies the means.  They don't care if they destroy the country in the process or incite violence, they just want back in power to do more damage! 

I lived through the worst era of political assassinations in American history, l963-1968:  President Kennedy, Atty.Gen. Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Jr.  I was very young and those events scarred me for life.  Trust me, no one in their right mind wants to live through that horror. Everyone needs to tone it down lest we repeat that sorrowful history.

Since I value my life, I dare not sign my full name or location.

TH, Georgia

Posted by Tricia Hinton almost 9 years ago

Suzanne - Taxation is not 'giving'... it is taking.  Taxation is not a form of charity.  The problem with having over 1000 posts here on AR is that I have to spend a while looking for it... 

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

And I thought George Bush was bad !!  We need Obama out of Office !!!

Posted by Mark Stebbins almost 9 years ago

Watts - Did you see that they pay a tax rate that is 7 times higher?

Andrew - you already posted 3/4 of that...  and the $600 threshhold is expenditures over the course of a year for your business... $50/mo. 

TH - Since your name is linked to your profile right below your initials, anyone that cares to look can likely have your phone number. 

Also, please note... the hatred and name calling seem to come more from the left of the aisle than the right.  There are a lot more people calling for the death of Dick Cheney and George Bush than for Obama and Biden.  We've seen in this thread the Republicans referred to as the MeThuglicans... but nobody has called the Democrats the Dumbocrats.  Conservatives, on this post, have been called out for being greedy and lacking Christian values... because we prefer low taxes. 

We have more to fear from the reactionary, rioting left than the left has to fear from the conservative, free-market right.

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Is our country supposed to run on air?  We're running it into the ground from pressure from so many who seem to think so. 

For years tax policy has benefited homeowners and home sellers enormously. Somehow I don't see a small tax on a profit in excess of $500K (I'll reserve my rant on unfair tax treatment of single people for another time) as particularly onerous. 

The rich keep getting richer and richer with the distorted tax policies of the last several decades - I won't be crying anytime soon - actually ever - if a teensy eensy bit of their gold comes out of their pile.

Liz

Posted by Elizabeth Bolton, Cambridge MA Realtor (RE/MAX Destiny Real Estate Cambridge, MA) almost 9 years ago

There is a tax as you've said but 'spinning' the wording on it doesn't make it any less so.  The "rich" will have to pony up 3.8% as you've said.

Posted by Lyn Sims, Schaumburg IL Real Estate (RE/MAX Suburban) almost 9 years ago

Yes, Lane,  my goof on the name thing.  First time I have responded.  Guess I have to state the obvious, that I was being tongue-in-cheek   Usually, when I read this type of blog, I don't waste my time responding, but this time I had to speak up.  This blog and most of the comments are so politically slanted and inaccurate.  I'm quite sick of it.  It is destructive babble.   

As most people on the right, you don't recognize the name calling and misinformation on your side.  I have a lot of time on my hands in this down market - as do obviously many visiting this site, so I keep up with what's going on and what political talking heads are spewing what venom.  I see how each side - the left vs the right - presents its ideas.  The left is not given to the name calling and the gross venom put out by the right.  My email inbox is filled with forwards of the most ridiculous accusations from right wingers.  I don't get any such trash from progressives or moderates.  There's a huge difference in temperament.  Example:  FOX News made a big hoopla over the USDA official's "racist" comments, played on a continuous loop, but now that whole story has been disproven.  What has FOX reported since the complete video has come out - that she was railroaded by the Obama administration!  The same folks did that on the ACORN pimp/prostitute edited video.   Now proven that the ACORN worker called the police - didn't show that part of the tape. Typical of their broadcasts.  Lies stick, unfortunately.  People don't seem to hear the corrections for the true stories.

Go back and re-read what your commentors have said, and you will see the vitriol.  There's bad on both sides, each have extremists.  That's why I like the middle.  John McCain is so far to the right now that he's almost on the left. The right has no corner on the Christianity market.  WWJD?  Don't think He would be for neglecting the poor and downtrodden and favoring greed.  I think He would want healthcare access for all and for the unemployed to receive their pitiful safety net because THERE ARE NO JOBS!  The BUSH deregulated bubble wiped 'em out!  Not coming back!  Republicans not only don't want anything for anyone except the rich, they want to wipe their feet on the poor (which is now mostly made up of the former middle class).

So, is that all you've got in answer to my comments? 

Just 'cause you can, doesn't mean you should blog.

Posted by Tricia Hinton almost 9 years ago

The people who wrote that abomination had no business experience - no understanding of how their actions would impact America. That is, unless you belive some of the others stories - that all of this is designed to bring us to our knees.

The only hope is to elect different people this November - people with enough courage, fortitude and brains to put a stop to the whole Obamacare package.

Posted by Marte Cliff, Your real estate writer (Marte Cliff Copywriting) almost 9 years ago

Tim - re # 86

I may have missed some school, but I tried to pay attention on the few days I was there. 

Smoot Hawley virtually slammed the door on imports and exports, hastening the spread of our problems throughout the rest of the globe.  The other legislation you mentioned was enacted almost three years after the stock market crash of 1929. At least our current government is not waiting for 35% unemployment to start passing legislation.

I don't believe in paying more tax than is necessary either. I would prefer a national sales tax or even a flat income tax, but it will never happen. I agree that people will be affected by this, but to what degree remains to be seen. I also remember the luxury tax on cars in the 1990's, yet people kept right on buying their Benzes and Lexuses (Lexi?) I suppose I would have more sympathy for the so-called victims of this new provision if it affected me directly.

Posted by Ed almost 9 years ago

Tricia - Actually...  O'Reilly and Hannity played the clip from Breitbart...  But, the first question is... 

  • Who gave Breitbart the clip?  He claims that the edited version is what he got.  The NAACP was calling for Sherrod's resignation... but they had the WHOLE tape.  By the next morning, Fox was playing the long version of the clip.  I haven't seen Hannity lately, but O'Reilly apologized for playng the clip without vetting it better first. 

Since the longer version came out, they have VERY upfront in playing the portions of the tape where she said it was a transformative moment in her life.  Beck was defending her and calling on the White House to reverse the firing. 

As to the vitriol, I have seen it for years...  Democrats accusing the GOP of greed, hatred and dishonesty.  Here in Atlanta a few years ago, a Democrat Mayoral candidate in Atlanta had a commercial showing people being hosed down in the 1960s while telling voters that the Republicans wanted to take us back there.  It was done 1 day befroe the election so that even though an apology had to be issued, it was issued after the election.  Democrats accused the GOP of wanting WANTING seniors to be forced to eat dog food.  Willful and wanton destruction of the planet.  Heck, right NOW the Democrats are calling the Bush Tax Cut something that ONLY benefited the rich (that is an absolute lie... feel free to check tax rates at all income levels before and after). And I get emails all of the time from Democrat PACs that are full of lies and half truths about the GOP...  Like "The Party of NO" and saying that they presented no alternatives to the Democrat helth care options.

This President has blamed EVERY single problem in his administration on Bush and taken almost no responsibility for anything himself.  He even went so far as to say that Bush handed him a $1.4T deficit when he took office...  BUT, he failed to mention that AFTER taking office, the Democrat controlled Congress passed a $1T stimulus plan and a $400B budget extension.  Obama signed both of them.  But they are Bush's fault... (that was today, by the way) 

There has yet to be one act of violence at a Tea Party, yet the Democrats and Progressives are hammering away every day about how dangerous the Tea Party supporters are... at the same time, left-wing groups have had violent demonstrations against the AZ immigration law.... with loads of arrests... and there is silence from the left and most of the media. 

Now, you mention THE ACORN video.  Which one called the police?  DC, NYC, Baltimore, San Diego? ACORN is a criminal organization, and should be examined as such.  They certainly shouldn't be funded by taxpayer money.

Where does government get money?  Do people NOT have a right to the fruits of their labors?  Should charity be voluntary or compelled by the threat of force? Somehow I just don't see Jesus standing in the street telling people that they are going to get roughed up and thrown in jail unless they tithe more...

If you really think that the left is a bunch of do-gooders, drop into places like Democratic Underground.  You will blush at the language that is used when talking about conservatives.  There is a LOT more time spent on making up insulting names for anything they don't like...  Faux News, Fakes News, GOOP, reTHUGlicans, TeaBaggers... 

As long as I have the right to blog, I will...  Even if you don't think I should.  But then, I'm not supporting a President that put a guy at the FCC that LOVES government censorship... Mark Lyod, Diversity Czar.

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Like I said it's lonely in this business of people with such short memories for history!

On a another note this is a group of people who without a spouse, either have limited, very expensive or no healthcare and will directly benefit from the new health care bill.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/during_the_clinton_administration_was_the_federal.html

Posted by Casie almost 9 years ago

Ed -

  • Smoot-Hawley, June 1930
  • NCC, 1931
  • Federal Home Loan Bank Act, 1932
  • Emergency Relief and Construction Act, 1932
  • Reconstruction Finance Corporation, 1932

But more importantly, the depression reached its bottom in the winter of 1932-1933... which means that the programs had kicked in and the recovery had started... until the recession of 1937.  Oddly, the FDR programs had just gotten rolling in time to kill the economy again.  And had it not been for loosening of the anti-business rules FDR instituted, and WWII, we might NOT have recovered. 

I certainly hope we don't need a world war to get out of the ever deeper hole that Obama is digging.  Since he spent his whole campaign chiding McCain for Bush's hole, one would have thought that he wouldn't speed up the digging...

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Lane,

Wow you sure know how to start a conversation.  Lots of issues with this legislation and maybe that is why over a dozen States are suing the Feds to block the Health Bill.  I understand several more are considering joining.  I am not sure if anyone has mentioned this,  I tried to read all of the comments, but there is so much here and I have to get back to work so I can pay my taxes.

Thanks for the information.

Posted by Dan Coleman almost 9 years ago

Casie - Feel free to look at the Treasury Department numbers for the deficit.  It INCREASED every year under Clinton.  FactCheck is simply wrong.  I had this discussion with one of their editors. It was an accounting trick.  They know it, but it is in line with their agenda.  And just so you know, Bush changed the rules so that he and future Presidents couldn't claim a balanced budget if the debt increased.

US Treasury Dept.

09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990

3,233,313,451,777.25

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Casie - One other thing... Health Care costs are going to go up under these new schemes. 

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

This is a quote I like to throw around a lot, so it might not be the first time you've seen it.  But, oh my gosh, is it true in this case!

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -Earnest Benn

If the healthcare bill and the new financial reform act don't fit this, I don't know what does.  Now, we do have problems w/ the financial and healthcare industries, so it wasn't hard to look for trouble.  But, it is apparent to me, that these politicians don't know their head from a you know what based on some of the solutions they authored in these bills.  Who is going to read the 20,000+ pages of the healthcare bill?  Not Joe and Sally taxpayer.  Same goes for financial reform.  I'd wager that 99% of the politicians that voted on it (excluding the authors of the bills, of course) didn't read more than 300 pages.  They had their staff read it over and give them a synopsis.  So, how many freedoms and choices are taken away from us that are hidden in the language of the bills?  We won't know for another year or two when a lot of the regulations outlined go into effect.  I am not even going to go into how Fannie Mae, Freddie, Ginnie and the ratings agencies escaped the financial reform bill.  They are the cause of this mess. 

Posted by Nor Eldridge (Primary Residential Mortgage, Inc) almost 9 years ago

Lane

I meant to say congratulations on this post and thanks for your diligence in digging out the information.  Hang in there.

Posted by Dan Coleman almost 9 years ago

Thanks for the detailed information and for posting this Lane. In a bill that large and with all the contradictions out there, it is good to know the facts. In general, I think taxes are regressive. And whether someone is paying $,3800 on a $600K profit or $1,800 on a lesser profit; dont we already pay enough taxes. I agree that spending has to be brought under control and as it is, we work until sometime in May just to pay the IRS.

Posted by Lynn BEHLENDORF (HomeSmart Real Estate) almost 9 years ago

Lotsa conservatives here!  Snopes.com is an excellent source for truth behind any and all rumors.  They say income has to be over $250,000.  A minor point, but...

Posted by Judy Graff almost 9 years ago

Well one thing is for sure, if you want to get a lot of comments on a blog then put a lot of half-truths in the subject line and the lemons will follow. I believe I'll write a blog about whether Jesus was a real person and see if that gets featured.

This whole thread seems to be bits and pieces of information from people that are "sources of the source".  I've checked both http://www.factcheck.org/2010/04/a-38-percent-sales-tax-on-your-home/ and http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp  and those "sources of the source" seem to state this will only apply to those that are "well off"(200-250k)   I'm going to leave the term "well off" open to interpretation because there are so many scenarios that this tax could apply, no one really has a clear answer. I do know that it won't apply to me nor 98 percent of other in the country.

I want to know, how many of your past and previous clients would this effect to the point where they wouldn't buy or sell?

Beisdes, if the "Tax Sky" was falling like some on this thread claim, do we really believe  NAR wouldn't make this more known?  It would seem that if this were remotely true and played out as some are trying to claim, then this would effect our business more than the 8k tax credit ever would.

My next ad would read "YOU BETTER SELL BEFORE YOU'RE TAXED ALL TO HELL"  Sheesh...2012 is going to be a crazy year!Especially with the world supposed to be ending and then a 3.8 percent real estate tax about to be imposed on everyone...  Anyone know of a good cave I can buy? It would be contigent upon me selling my house but don't worry the 3.8 wont apply so no need to account for that on my proceeds.

Posted by Bret Nida (Era Teachers Inc) almost 9 years ago

Bret - Had you read the original post, you'd see that you haven't made a point I didn't make... except that you don't care if others are taxed to hell... only you. 

Judy - $200k for individuals, $250k for couple on income.

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

I didn't read the 20K pages, but I bet the next chapter exempted all of our lawmakers from this tax as well?

Posted by Tony Hager, Broker (United Realty Texas) almost 9 years ago

You are correct Lane. I was repeating your point.  I should have addressed this comment:

But...

It will drive another nail into the luxury real estate market.  It has been in the doldrums for a while.  Adding new taxes will not get it going again.  And if you are thinking that this only affects ‘the wealthy', think again.  Those homes are not built by ‘the wealthy'.  Those homes are not renovated by ‘the wealthy'.  Those consumers are more likely to hire contractors to do improvements.  And they are more likely to update more often...  They are a driver in the housing sector.  This added tax is NOT putting gas in the tank...

 Yeah, I could care less about what affects mainly 2 percent of the country.  I don't think those that "renovate"  for the wealthy 2 percent will be affected much at all if a wealthy individual decides not to sell,build or invest because of 3.8% tax. Only me

Posted by Bret Nida (Era Teachers Inc) almost 9 years ago

Very interesting that in your original post you claim the conservatives say there is a tax and those "more supportive of the president" say there is not.  It's not how you "view" the tax - it's a tax!  I heard about it from the Texas Real Estate Political Action Committee - a non-partisan group.  I also think it's interesting that you state is "won't apply to many people".  In Austin, Texas, a very desirable city to live in and a highly educated one, incomes must be higher.  I have quite a few clients making over $200K as a family.  I think it's irresponsible for you to make it sound like this isn't a big deal.  This effects more than just the "luxury market" people!  It effects our industry!  Donate to your local PACs and help prevent irresponsible laws like this from being passed!

Posted by Lisa Messana (Keller Williams Realty) almost 9 years ago

You are only charged the 3.8% Medicare tax if your investment income passes the capital gains threshold.  How much is that?  The capital gains threshold is $250,000 for individuals and $500,000 for married couples filing jointly.

This means that profit over the $500,000 or $250,000 (depending on your marital status) would be taxed at the 3.8% rate (you would still need to be classified a "high earner").  In our $400,000 example above, where you walked away with $50,000 in profit, you would not be taxed.  The $50,000 is below the capital gains threshold.

Want to see more examples with calculations?  Visit "3.8% “Real Estate Sales Tax” thanks to Health Care Legislation?"

Posted by John Marzy almost 9 years ago

Show me a Republiacan that complains about a tax or some wellfare progrom (insert your complaint here) that a democrate party voted for and I will show you the same Republican that does nothing to repeal said tax when they are in the majority.

Posted by John Marzy almost 9 years ago

TO CLARIFY DETAILS ON THIS "MEDICARE" SALES TAX: It will affect those married couples making more than $500,000 profit on the sale of a home, or $250,000 for a single person, and whose income is above $250,000. The tax of 3.8% applies only to the portion of the profit above the $500,000.

For example: lets say you make a profit of $600,000 on the sale of your home, and your income is $300,000. You can exclude the first $500,000 from any taxes (THIS IS A REALLY GOOD DEAL -- ONLY IN AMERICA FOLKS!). On the remainder, or $100,000, you must pay capital gains of 15% -- so you will owe $15,000. That's been the case for a good many years.

Now, in addition to this capital gains tax, you will have to pay the 3.8% sales tax. The tax is based on the lesser of your profit or thedifference between the threahold and your income. In this example, the difference is $300,000 (your income) minus $250,000 (the threashold) = $50,000 . The extra "Medicare tax" you would owe the IRS is thus $1,900.

The funds will be allocated to the Medicare Trust Fund, which is part of the Social Security System.

Posted by Dana Scanlon, Bethesda MD- Award-Winning Bethesda Realtor (Keller Williams Capital Properties) almost 9 years ago

I just don't understand it.  I've been on Government health care for almost 45 years.  I don't see anything wrong with it.  I love it, you will too.  Come on chill out.

Come on guys, how many of you are really going to be effected by this 3.8% eddy biddy tax, and besides if we can get more money now it's not going to cost our kids as much latter.  Wouldn't you like your kids to be debt free?  What kind of person wouldn't want their kids to have a healthy fear free enviornment?  Come on, Love one another, spread it around.

Posted by Terry Kempf (4114 Info Service LLC) almost 9 years ago

Dana #185 -  Sorry, but there is no such thing as a Medicare Trust Fund or a Social Security Trust Fund.  Although referred to frequently, they do not exist.  Payroll taxes collected for these purposes are actually combined with other taxes and used for whatever purposes Congress wants to use them for.  It's part of the "Washington Two-Step" that is bankrupting the US.  Excesses in Medicare and Social Security receipts are often applied to shortfalls in other accounts, thus making it appear that all is well.  In reality, Medicare and SS are about to run out of money, which has the politicians panicking to figure out where they will borrow the money to make those other accounts seem balanced.  It's all a house of cards and the wind is picking up...

Posted by John Souerbry, Homes, Land & Investments (Cordon Real Estate) almost 9 years ago

Comment by Lane Bailey - REALTOR & Car Guy:

Carolyn - Since real estate agents make up less than 1% of the population, should there be a special tax for us?  What about a special tax for car dealers?  How about a special tax for lawyers?  Doctors?  Housewives?  23 year olds? 

Carolyn - Please, I'm sorry but I feel compelled to get my 2 cents in too so please forgive me.

Lane YES!! YES!! We're ALL SPECIAL - We should all pay special taxes, we're special people trying to keep a VERY SPECIAL COUNTRY & the people in it FEARLESS - That means no half truths, no guilt by association, You know the Constitution!! Taxation with representation.  If the majority wants the tax, then tax'em If the majority want national health insurance then give it to them. Surely you believe in the American way.  Surely you believe we are very special people with a very special government of the people by the people.

Lane how about this post, you need to back this guy up too:

 "Comment by Andrew Anderson:

Did you know you are going to have to fill out forms when you purchase signs, business cards and anything that has an expenditure of $600. Every time you do it.  Oh yea, and there will be a tax.  These things are going to effect everyone of you...

Still laughing at those people that say, it will only effect "those rich people" LOL too funny really."

Andrew you are right - It's called Schedule C of the US tax code - You are right again, here in America we have an income tax & everybody that makes money has to pay a tax on it.  I hope that's not too new to you. AND again Andrew your are a funny guy, taxes are paid by all our citizens.  We call it taxation with representation. Most of us recognize the need for Government regulations.  Yep sometimes people will exploit other & we need a way to deal with that.  Yep some of us have no clue how to build a bridge (even if it is to nowhere) so we need an organization that can build a bridge so we can get somewhere. It's called the USA and I LOVE IT!! YEA America Yea

Posted by Terry Kempf (4114 Info Service LLC) almost 9 years ago

God Bless America!  We need it now more than ever...

Posted by Latara Clements (Florida Dream Real Estate) almost 9 years ago

Miss Me Yet!!!!

Posted by Manny Gonzalez (Negotiable Realty LLC) almost 9 years ago

Bret - How about investment properties?  There is no cap gains exemption from investment properties...  So, you sell a rental property, and if you are successful, you get to add the Medicare tax to the increased cap gains tax...  You just went from 15% tax on the profit to 23.8% tax on it.. 

It will affect people that renovate homes... and not just luxury homes. 

Lisa - Wow... you are the first one to hit me from that angle... 

Dana - Do you know what the exclusion is for investment properties?  I'll give you a hint... it begins with $0.  Many more people in this category will be selling investment properties.  If they make $1, they will have an extra tax to pay. 

4114 - So, you must have the specialSchedule C that requires you to file a 1099 for EVERY entity that you do more than $600 business with.  Currently you only need to file one for contractors and such... in 2012 you will need to send one to the Post Office if you get more than $600 in postage... and the power company if your company power bill is over $600 for the year.  And Wal-mart... Staples... If you give that company or individual more than $600 in a year, you have to 1099 them. 

This is the government telling you that they think that you are a liar and everyone you deal with is a liar.  And wait until the IRS gets these and has to double the size of their staff in order to process all of them...  They will spend more in new government employees than they collect in additional taxes.

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

We all love to pay more taxes!  Where do I sign up?  Without taxes, how can we afford to keep dropping bombs telling other countries how they should be living?

Posted by Georgie Hunter R(S) 58089, Maui Real Estate sales and lifestyle info (Hawai'i Life Real Estate Brokers) almost 9 years ago

Thanks Lane for the post. This tax was a goal by this administration from the beginning. They also have a goal set in ending the $250k (Single) & $500K (married) exemption as well. Raising taxes is the only thing they desire to do, and in the end it still will not pay for the massive debt they have brought down on all taxpayers. You made a great point when you said it will not just affect the rich. That is another lie that is always thrown out by the left in an effort to try and justify their desire to tax everything. Unfortunately, this will have a negative effect on the market unless it ends up being repealed. Lets push for that repeal starting in November!

Posted by Matthew Bartlett (Century 21 Masters/Lic. #01353034) almost 9 years ago

Wow,  you really stirred the pot on this post.  I only read a few of the comments, but thanks so much to you for doing the research to point out (one of the many) hidden secrets of this health care bill that no one seems to really know anything about.  The whole thing scared me from the beginning -- now I know why.  Nothing that's too long to read in a day should be passed into law.

Posted by Nicole Donaghy, Helping Families Home in Lexington and Columbia (Re/Max Purpose Driven) almost 9 years ago

Rather than gripe, I decided it's better to compliment those who can create humor about all this ... so thanks Georgina and everyone else.

Posted by Tina Gleisner, Home Tips for Women (Home Tips for Women) almost 9 years ago

This will not slow down the real estate market at all.  As a real estate investor, this will not stop me from investing, it will only make me perform more due diligence and search for better deals, and maybe loose a couple extra dollars on the back end.  But it will not stop me from buying.

As a real estate agent, this will not affect enough of the population to see a change in the market. Honestly the luxury market is already at a standstill, and over 50% of my markets transactions over the past year have been to first time homebuyers.  The reason that the luxury home owners will stay in their homes will not be because of some small tax, it is because their are not enough buyers in those price ranges anymore.

I also want to comment on is the fact that if you listened to Obama's reasoning for attacking that top 2%, you would understand that the reason he focused on them is because they have been beating taxes for years, and finding loop holes to pay as little as possible.  I am not a conspiracy theorist, but if you research the history behind the creation of Corporations, they were basically created as a tool to write off income and for the wealthy to pay no taxes.  This still holds true today.  I think it is dead wrong for this to be the case, but I own two companies myself and I have used the loopholes that I have learned from my mentors (whom are very close to being in that top 2%) to not have paid taxes on any of my income in the past 5 years.  I figured if I cant beat them, join them.  I know this is wrong but I have learned that this is how the rich become wealthy.

Lastly, we need to stop blaming the politicians for the mess we are in.  This mess was created by the greed of the financial sector, a SUPER over inflated housing market, and shady lending practices.  Honestly if the government had not spent the money they did, we would be in a lot worse shape than we are right now.  Without some of the bailouts we would have lost millions of more jobs along with our financial infrastructure and then we would all be complaining that the government did not do enough.  Without the tax credits a large percent of us agents would have had 50% less business in the past year.  My belief is that if we all stopped complaining and just went with the flow the government is creating right now it would go a lot smoother.  Yes they are taking control of a lot of things, but we all know that politician are the laziest individuals in the country and are not going to want that responsibility for long.  So just ride out with their plans for the next 5-6 years and once we come out of this recession and get to a sustainable level I guarantee they will pull the reigns back and go back to being the same lazy people we had all grown to love.

Posted by Barry almost 9 years ago

Lesson in Taxation

Each evening, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this.

The first four men -- the poorest -- would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1: the sixth would pay $3; the seventh $7; the eighth $12, the ninth $18 and the tenth man -- the richest -- would pay $59. That's what they decided to do.

The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every evening and seemed quite happy with the arrangement -- until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20." So now dinner for the ten only cost $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free.

But what about the other six -- the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being *paid* to eat their meal. So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same tax formula, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so the fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59.

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth. "But he got $7!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got seven times more than me!" "That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $7 back when I got only $2?

The wealthy get all the breaks!

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison.
"We didn't get anything at all."

The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night he didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. Something to think about.

They were $52 short!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college instructors,
IS HOW THE TAX SYSTEM WORKS.


The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. They leave the state or they leave the country and so does the reat of their money.

Posted by Dennis and Sunshine Smith, Making a Difference 4U in San Diego Real Estate (RE/MAX By-the-Sea (N Coastal San Diego)) almost 9 years ago

Interested in repealing Obama Care?

Iowa Republican Rep. Steve King's discharge petition, aimed at repealing ObamaCare, is gaining momentum in the House as more representatives sign on.

Read more about it.  King says:

 "I am optimistic that we will be able to attract the 218 signatures we will need to force a vote on repealing ‘Obamacare.' The past week has seen significant momentum building for repeal," King said. "Signatures on the discharge petition have come more quickly than I had expected."

This process has slowed recently.  If you really want to fix health care (which is really needed) but you do not wnat Obama Care and all of it's little added taxes, contact your local House member and tell them you want them to sign the discharge petition.

Posted by Dennis and Sunshine Smith, Making a Difference 4U in San Diego Real Estate (RE/MAX By-the-Sea (N Coastal San Diego)) almost 9 years ago

TEN POOREST CITIES

City, State, % of People Below the Poverty Level

1. Detroit , MI

32.5%

2. Buffalo , NY

29..9%

3. Cincinnati , OH

27.8%

4. Cleveland , OH

27.0%

5. Miami , FL

26.9%

5. St. Louis , MO

26.8%

7. El Paso , TX

26.4%

8. Milwaukee , WI

26.2%

9. Philadelphia , PA

25.1%

10. Newark , NJ

24.2%


U.S. Census Bureau, 2006 American Community Survey, August 2007

What do the top ten cities

(over 250,000) with the highest poverty rate all have in common?



Detroit , MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1961.

Buffalo , NY (2nd) hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1954.

Cincinnati , OH (3rd) hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1984.

Cleveland , OH (4th) hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1989.

Miami , FL (5th) has never had a Republican mayor.

St. Louis , MO (6th) hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1949.

El Paso , TX (7th) has never had a Republican mayor.

Milwaukee , WI (8th) hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1908.

Philadelphia , PA (9th) hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1952.

Newark , NJ (10th) hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1907.


Einstein once said, 'The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.'


It is the poor who habitually elect Democrats yet they are still POOR!

"You cannot help the poor
by destroying the rich.

You cannot strengthen the weak
by weakening the strong.

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

You cannot lift the wage earner up
by pulling the wage payer down.

You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.

You cannot build character and courage
by taking away people's initiative and independence.

You cannot help people permanently by doing for them,
what they could and should do for themselves."

Abraham Lincoln


Posted by Kimo Jarrett, Pro Lifestyle Solutions (WikiWiki Realty) almost 9 years ago

Lane,

Nice charts you provided in your comments... Good to see somebody is aware of what is going on out there.

By the way... here is where you can go to get your Obama Tax Exemption Card since he promised no new taxes for anybody making less then $250,000 a year:

The Obama Tax Hike Exemption Card

Enjoy!

Posted by Paul Francis, Las Vegas Real Estate Agent - Summerlin Homes (Francis Group Real Estate) almost 9 years ago

Before everyone jumps on the band wagon moaning and groaning about more taxes it would be a good idea to research the information first.  If you go to Snopes.com you will see that this is simply not true.  The tax only applies to gains after the $250,000 for a singel or $500,000 for couple on the sale of a home if they make over $250,000 a year.  Frankly that doesn't affect too many of us.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp

Posted by Linda Lorenzo almost 9 years ago

Barry - So, did you type that on your White House computer?Each of your actual points has already been refuted, so it is pointless to keep repeating myself... but let me just add... just like the President, you are quite your. 

Kimo - The rich get richer because the continue to do what made them rich.  The poor get poorer because they continue to do what made them poor. 

Linda - Did Snopes fail to mention that the exclusion you are referring to ONLY applies to your primary residence, and that since there is no exclusion on investment properties, the increased taxes are on the very first dollar of profit?  I guess you didn't... because they failed to include that in their article.  Don't worry, I sent them an email to correct their innaccurate information. 

And is it an excuse that it dowsn't affect many?  If something is wrong or damaging, is it ok if it only affects a few people?

 

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

You know what they say.............."Only things are certain in life, death and taxes".

Posted by Kim Dove, Realtor - Jacksonville FL (Watson Realty Corp) almost 9 years ago

Geeze- it's amazing the amount of people who state it's "only" X dollars. Doesn't sound like too many agents posting here make $200K/year since many state it won't affect them or their clients so it's ok to rape the so called rich so we can fly Obama's dog on his own jet or spend over $600 million in tax dollars to supply bottle water for congress. Or any other of the excesses our politicians spend OUR money on. The "wealthy" not only pay the bulk of the taxes that supply the majority of the services that most Americans use, the "wealthy" also tend to donate more to charities. And if this tax affects even ONE person it is wrong.

Posted by Jackie Hawley, Southeast Michigan Real Estate (Coldwell Banker Professionals) almost 9 years ago

This is probably the most politicized ActiveRain post and responses I have seen. With more like this I will not be frequenting ActiveRain as much.

Posted by Phil Porter (Charter One Realty) almost 9 years ago

@Lane:  I stated that FOX Network played the Sherrod EDITED tape on a continuous loop.  I didn't say they produced it.  So, huh?  And, Bush initiated 2 stimulus packages.  His Sec'y of the Treasury, Henry Paulson cried imminent doomsday on the financial markets and I believe he was right, but the Bush administration didn't include accountability or restrictions on the distribution to the banks and AIG.  However, the taxpayers have been paid back with interest on much of the TARP funds.  If GM had gone under - American auto industry lost, tens of thousands of jobs lost.  So much good has been accomplished in such a short time.  You can't admit it, but you know it's true.  I think you and your friends on the right are angry because this President has been able to achieve many of his goals.  And, they were in his campaign promises, so no surprise.  It's why he was elected.

President Obama (your president, too) had plenty of reason and evidence to blame the state of the country on the previous administration.  Actually, it wasn't so much blame as explanation of why improvement was not going to happen overnight.  He had to keep repeating that because the right has totally ignored those facts.

Americans don't want government at all until there's an emergency.  You can't have it that way.  This country was formed as a UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - not separate country/states.  There must be a strong central government.  Equality, opportunity, fairness, quality of life are not a given in many regions and states of this country, so I'm glad there's a Federal Government to have the last say.

Personally, I like my presidents to be well-educated and intelligent, with a heart and conscience.  I also like a president and administration willing to admit to, apologize for and correct mistakes.  That is so novel after 8 years of the opposite!

Just imagine - what if - McCain/Palin won?   Worse: what if McCain was unable to continue and Palin became president - shudder, shudder, shudder.  McCain did such a disserve to his country when he created the monster (Mama Grizzlies are huge and eat their young, you know) that he can't  admit it.  He has decided to go with if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.  In his defense, I don't think it was intentional.  People, be glad!  How bad would it be now if . . . ?

And, doesn't seem like Cheney and his daughter Liz are very afraid of violence from the left.  They have been on all the Sunday shows as well as Fox shows trying to revise history.  They're not exactly hiding out.  Thank you to Mr. Bush, for displaying some class and staying mostly in the background.  But, then, I don't know what's in his book.

About Fox:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/38372844#38372844

Also, I challenge you to look at this one:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/38372844#38316915

@Georgina, Barry, Bret and 4114 Info Service and others who are in the minority viewpoint herein, THANK YOU!

@Jason (#179):  I am neither speaking for God nor imposing my thoughts and opinions on God.  I am expressing my GOD-GIVEN RIGHT TO AN OPINION. Your quoting of scripture is very selective and incomplete on this message.   WWJD?: I was merely illustrating the oft-quoted and displayed message intended to be thought-provoking which Christians state or wear on their wrists. Jesus also said that "if you do it unto one of the least of these my brethren, you do it unto me" (I BELIEVE He meant whether good or bad, and that is my right to interpret as such, not that I am "speaking for or imposing my thoughts and opinions on God" ) - or very close to those words - don't have my Bible handy at the moment - and that we should feed, clothe and shelter the poor.  CHURCHES, FAMILIES  AND CHARITABLE ORGANIZATIONS ARE SUFFERING, TOO!  Many entire families are unemployed.  And they do help, as much as they can, I'm sure and  as I have been a part of and seen evidence of that.  Republican lawmakers not only have held up extension of unemployment checks but also an effective jobs bill.  I am not trying to ease my guilt for I have none in this context.  I have always been a charitable, compassionate person.   

THE GOVERNMENT IS THE PEOPLE!  The people overwhelming voted for President Obama and a majority in the House and Senate.  So, get over it.  Majority should rule (though not in the filibustering Senate).  Gee, Republicans are such poor and sore losers.  It's gonna be alright - you'll get another chance to do your damage, so relax and load the ammo for your campaigns, not speaking literally, I hope, ala Sharon Angle.

Peace!

Posted by Tricia almost 9 years ago

I didn't intend to post this 3 times.  Computer froze, so  I didn't realize the submission took.  But, kinda funny.  Maybe someone will actually notice and read it.

Posted by Tricia almost 9 years ago

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/04/a-38-percent-sales-tax-on-your-home/

 

This tax is ridiculous and just another one of the Obama Administrations ploys to steal revenue from hard working Americans.

 

 

Posted by Rich Honquest almost 9 years ago

Tricia - Boy...  I guess I'll start at the beginning. Let's do a little timeline of events for Ms. Sherrod. 

  • Monday, 11:18am, Breitbart posted 7 clips from the NAACP speech given by Sherrod in March.  According to Andrew Breitbart, he received the clips in the edited form they were originally shown.  
  • At some point in here, the NAACP calls for Sherrod's resignation and repudiates her comments... despite the fact that they had, in their possession, the unedited tape...
  • Sometime prior to 4:00pm, Sherrod is told by the USDA that the White House wants her to resign.  She is told to pull over because they want her to resign immediately, because she is going to be on Glenn Beck at 5:00pm.
  • At 4:28, Drudge posts the video.
  • At 8:48pm, Bill O'Reilly shows the video and comments about the seeming racist comments... he apologizes the next day. 
  • Sean Hannity discusses the tape during his show at about 9:04pm.  
  • The following day at 5:00pm, Glenn Beck comes on in support of Shirley Sherrod.  

What is left out of this is that on Thursday of the previous week, Sherrod started getting hate mail because of the appearance of the edited tape... I've heard that it was on YouTube.  At that point, she informed the USDA of the existence of the tape AND the context in which her comments were made. 

So, from this we know that her superiors at the USDA knew about the clips AND knew about how it was taken out of context.  We also know that the NAACP had possession of the full speech, yet they also chose to issue a statement against Ms. Sherrod. 

The questions YOU ought to be asking about that are:

  • Who gave the edited tape to Breibart, and why?
  • Why was she fired when the USDA had prior knowledge of the clips AND the context from which they were pulled?
  • How can she or the White House blame Glenn Beck and Fox News when she was fired before the clips were even aired?

On to your next point...

Bush called for a "tax credit" early in 2008.  Honestly, that was pointless...  It has been pointless every time it has been done.  The projected cost was $158B. 

Bush also put together TARP which was scheduled to cost $700B.  It was to be done in 2 parts of $350B each.  It was designed by Hank Paulson, and partially administered by...  Tim Geithner.  The first half was distributed during Bush's term, and the second half was administered during Obama's term.  Obama voted for it, and was consulted and kept in the loop while a candidate and as President-Elect. 

If you'd like to see the timeline of changes to the program, Wikipedia has a nice one...  The law was modified several times prior to Obama being sworn in, and a couple of times after. 

And there have been a LOT of economists that said that the market would have taken care of GM on its own.  They would have gone into bankruptcy, and it would have sucked, but it would have created a vacuum that would have been filled by another business (like the sale of Chrysler).  But, what you should be outraged about is the FACT that the White House forced companies that had secured debt to get in line behind the UAW, which held unsecured debt.  In effect, they nullified contracts to give a bone to the unions. 

Here is your top question...

  • If a business is unable to compete, should they be supported or should they die so that a more efficient model can take their place?

Also of note... Ford didn't take the bailout and they are in the best shape of the three... 

Next...

When Bush was elected, the country was in the midst of a major recession.  The stock market bubble had burst and the entire tech sector was tanking.  Federal revenue was dropping like a rock.  Unemployment was soaring.  As an added bonus, 9/11 happened.  However, Bush didn't mention at least once during each of his speeches that Clinton left him a giant mess to clean up. 

As a little aside, he tried the "tax credit" check thing... and it didn't work.  But, when he cut taxes (the now infamous "Bush Tax Cuts", the economy turned around, unemployment dropped like a rock and recovery set in... until the housing bubble burst. 

Of course, you couldn't be a liberal without accusing Bush of not being smart...  And while I don't think he was as smart as I would have liked, the evidence is that he was WAY smarter than the media gave him credit for... but more importantly, he had executive experience... and didn't blame everyone else for everything that ever happened... 

On the other hand, we have Obama.  He never ran a business, a state or even a campaign.  And the lack of experience at actually doing something was in full force during the oil spill crisis.  Instead of looking for way to mitigate the damage and get the problem solved, he looked for people to blame.  When he was offered skimmers in the first days of the spill, he refused them.  When the LA Governor asked if he could dredge and build barriers around fragile eco-systems, the EPA decided to study the issue for 58 days... at which point they gave an ok... TOO LATE. 

For as smart as he is, he is VERY slow to handle real crisis and important issues (Afghanistan's surge, the oil spill, Gitmo), but he is VERY quick to throw people under the nearest bus.  Two cases that come to mind would be Sherrod and the police officers in Cambridge, MA when Henry Gates was arrested.  His specific statement was, "We don't yet have all of the facts, but the police acted stupidly."  So, I'm not convinced that he is all that smart... but he can read REALLY well. 

You really should know that Michelle Obama is the one that has said in her speeches that we need to change history.

Finally, Mama Grizzlies don't eat their young.  They fiercly protect their young... and teach them.  Sarah Palin HAS executive experience.  She has sucessfully run a state and a business.  She has made a payroll and actually created a job.  We might be in a lot better shape with a chief executive that knows the basics of leadership and crisis management than we are with a community organizer with radical friends, pretty speeches and a penchant for not telling the truth. 

Oh yeah... and Obama did win about 53% of the vote.  But that "Democracy" cry is a little hollow when he has gone against MASSIVE majorities on most of his biggest policy initiatives.  The will of the people is being ignored... and that is the reason that the Democrat majorities likely will be turned out later this year.

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Like sheep being led to slaughter do the lemmings try to defend this theft,  I appreciate you standing guard, Lane

Posted by Brian Brady, 858-777-9751 (San Diego VA Home Loans/858-777-9751) almost 9 years ago

What's this, another sneak-a-TAX, you don't say...  Nothing surprises me anymore with these politicians.  Thanks for the heads up on this.

Posted by Iran Watson, Marietta Real Estate Agent - Photographer (Georgia Elite Realty) almost 9 years ago

 Wow, watching Lane try to spin the Bush years into some kind of Reagan-worshipping fantasy has made we really wonder about his sanity.  How anyone can look at the bodies of 1600 Americans floating in the water in New Orleans, knowing that Bush sat on his hands while these people died, and compare it to anything during the Obama administration is beyond me.   Bush "has executive experience and Obama doesnt"  REALLY?  What planet are you on?  You wouldnt know it by looking at the results of Bush's failed poilicies, which Obama now has the task of cleaning up after.

The measures Obama has taken have saved us from a major depression.  It's easy to say afer the fact that we should have just let GM, AIG, and Lehman Bros sink.  That would have led to a major catastrophe, the likes of which this country has never seen.  All caused by the ineptitude, and incompetence, and failed ideology of Republicans in this country.  Voodoo economics never has, and never will work.  The 8 years of the reign of the moron has proven once and for all that Reaganism is dead.  Thank God for that.  Repubs deserve to be out of power for at least another generation after the damage they have done to this countgry.   Not even Al Qaeda themselves could have done as much damage to this country as the far right has done.   Bin Laden would be proud.

 

Repubs have a knack for destroying the economy every time they get their grubby hands on the political apparatus. They then allow infrastructure to crumble and proceed to blame Dems for it all later.

I honestly believe that Repubs hate this country.  The South has never gotten over losing the Civil War and their lust for vengeance is insatiable.  They are so vengeful that they are willing to destroy this country in the process of unleashing their wrath on those who took what they thought was their god-given right to enslave other human beings. 

Conservatism is and always will be a futile attempt to justify childish selfishness. Lane's exercise in futility here is just another example of that.

 

"While it may not be true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative"

-John Stuart Mill

Posted by Jay Schmidt almost 9 years ago

I came across an article that more clearly shows the disparity between the top 1% and the rest of us.

"Two-thirds of the nation’s total income gains from 2002 to 2007 flowed to the top 1 percent of U.S. households, and that top 1 percent held a larger share of income in 2007 than at any time since 1928, according to an analysis of newly released IRS data by economists Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez.[1]

During those years, the Piketty-Saez data also show, the inflation-adjusted income of the top 1 percent of households grew more than ten times faster than the income of the bottom 90 percent of households."

 

Posted by Watts Carr (EXIT Homeplace Realty) almost 9 years ago

OMGoodness!  What an authority!  You should change from a real estate blog to a political one for Fox.   You fit right in there.  I didn't think you would follow my two internet links. 

Any faint hint of credibility you had has dissolved at your defense and admiration of Sarah Palin.   And Glenn Beck?  Are you attending his university?  Unbelievable!  WOW!

Lies, you say?  McCain now claims he never identified himself as a "maverick", which was practically the McCain/Palin campaign slogan.  Since the BP-caused oil disaster, Sarah "Drill-Baby-Drill" Palin now says she was never in favor of off-shore drilling, that she meant on-land drilling.  Can you say HYPOCRISY?  How about LIES?  That's much shorter - only one syllable.  You can manage that.

So, you want one auto company in the USA? Sounds like a Republican monopoly to me.  I love FORD and applaud them for not needing or taking help.  I have driven Fords since 1997, so you're preaching to the choir on this point.  But that doesn't mean one of the last and oldest American manufacturing sectors shouldn't be helped and saved to improve and prosper for its workers and the American economy.  How many second chances have you been given in your lifetime?

Bush couldn't blame Clinton because Clinton didn't leave this country in a mess.  And, Bush & team stole the election with help from his brother,  Fla. Gov. Jeb B. and his republican machine - state election boards shouldn't trump national elections, affecting all 50 states.  I think W got just what he asked for and deserved, but the country didn't deserve what he did to it.  I don't hate Bush, just regret his Presidency.  I even like Laura and the girls.  Mama Barbara's okay, too.  See, I'm not a liberal, but a moderate ;).

Bush and friends denied global warming, causing years of delay in addressing the issue and bringing about solutions!  That's majorly bad!

Would 9/11 have happened if Bush & team hadn't ignored the intelligence foretelling its imminent probability? (I think his guilt was overwhelming so he invaded a country and started a war against the wrong foe, not to mention using 9/11 to get revenge for Hussein's threats against his dad.) Would this country have been directly attacked if Papa Bush hadn't started the first Gulf war?  Interesting ponderance. Republican policies have made Americans greater targets of terrorists.

How can people of intelligence think that the mid-East mess we're in, THE LIVES LOST, the taxpayer $$$ spent,  isn't worse than President Obama's and Democratic policies?

You equate taking the time to study, deliberate, seek quiet consultation and planning to "slow" reaction.  Mr. Obama has had some pretty big problems to tackle.  The Obama Administration was on the job handling the Gulf oil spill from day one.  Bush praised "Brownie" for a job well done after Katrina.  Ask the people trying to survive in that sports arena how helped they felt.

No wonder this country is so polarized.  A large portion of the population is delusional and loves to hate, denies the facts and many get obscenely rich talking their heads off in political spin and lies.  Do Limbaugh, Beck, Palin, Hannity, O'Reilly, Coulter, Malkin and the rest of their ilk really care what happens to America, or how fat they can grow their bank accounts?  I think they would be out of a job if they didn't keep the trash stirred.

Very dark, immensely disturbing.  Sad, scary, dangerous talk on the right (mostly wrong) side.  Be careful what you wish and vote for this fall, America. 

Jay Schmidt (#221) has you figured out Lane.

 

 

Posted by Tricia almost 9 years ago

visit my blog and see what I posted on 7-24-10

Posted by Dana Devine (Charles Rutenberg Realty) almost 9 years ago

Jay - I'm getting tired of answering these things that are so far off topic it isn't even funny...  But, you have NO idea what I believe, or what I think of Bush.  But when you are talking about Katrina, you should keep in mind that the first line of defence is the City.  The second is the State.  THEN comes the federal government.  The mismanagement of Katrina began with the Mayor and continued with the Governor.  Both just sat and waited for someone else to do something.  And trying to pin the deaths of people that refused to leave their homes on the President is just plain wrong.  And dumb.  The rest of your comment is just a baseless rant... 

Watts - Oddly, the rich also pay a higher share of taxes than at any time since the Great Depression... and there are more regulations and punative taxes than EVER.  Obviously that isn't the solution...  Maybe allowing a free market might be.  One other point to keep in mind...  The rich keep doing what made them rich.  The poor keep doing what made them poor.  Teaching people to be dependent on the government for all of the important decisions is NOT teaching them to be indepenent or successful. 

Tricia - I'm sure that plays on Democratic Underground, but not in the real world.  Again, since we have moved so far from the topic, I am tired of trying to set you straight... so I will let you remain uninformed.  But, please note that Obama's strategy of caving to Iran is not really producing the results he expected.  And he keeps drawing new lines...  "Iran having a noclear weapon is not acceptable"... guess what... 

Again, please look back to contemporaneous reporting of the tech crash.  It was the end of the world.  HOWEVER, it was handled better.  And the media was looking for reasons to go after Bush... until 9/11/01... then they laid off of him for a little while. 

The 2000 election against Gore doesn't help you either.  There have been NUMEROUS studies of the ballots in FL.  They all come back with the same result.  Bush won.  If the same standards are applied to the ballots, the Bush had more votes.  It was Gore that was trying to get ballots thrown out... not counted. 

The rest of your comment is a liberal rant not worth bothering to respond to.  Using MSNBC as a source shows contempt for reality.  You complain about Fox News and then use a network that had news anchors talking about how wonderful Obama was... at which point they had to be demoted to opnion because they couldn't pull off any sort of journalistic integrity anymore. 

BTW, when I watch MSNBC (and I do occassionally), I see people argue about the issues from the FAR LEFT and the moderate left.  When they debate them on Fox, it is generally from more balanced viewpoints. 

And I don't really care if you think I have any credibility.  I have facts on my side... you have faulty opinion and a bunch of elitists on your side that think THEY need to make the decisions for everyone else.

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

When my mother and father moved to NV in 1952, a sales tax on items was implemented at about 1%...and was supposed to be temporary.  Almost 60 years later, it is now at 8.1%.  So much for temporary.

The point as I see it is that they planted the seed for this tax and they will just continue to amend it until more of the population will become affected over time by this new tax. It may not affect a lot of people right now but just watch how it morphs over time.

Posted by Ramona Johnson (Vegas One Realty) almost 9 years ago

I appreciate that our tax system is crazy with loopholes and special exemptions, etc. (mostly for the rich....and corporations), and I'd gladly trade that for a "fair tax" on consumption, but we are where we are. 

I am pointing out the earnings disparity between the top 1% and the rest of us to show that when too much of our (collective) money is tied up in the hands of the very few, that is bad for the whole economy, it's unsustainable.

So do we just allow the poor to become poorer and the rich richer until....  how does that play out?

We have had as much of a free market as any country in the history of the world for the past 30 years, and we have proven that those policies don't work.  Even Alan Greenspan has admitted this:

"he acknowledged that his libertarian view of markets and the financial world had not worked out so well. "You know," he told the legislators, "that's precisely the reason I was shocked, because I have been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well." While Greenspan did defend his various decisions, he admitted that his faith in the ability of free and loosely-regulated markets to produce the best outcomes had been shaken: "I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organizations, specifically banks and others, were such as that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms.""

Like it or not, Capitalism requires regulations..... mortgage-backed securitires anyone?  Maybe some 40 to 1 derivatives with that?

You say: "the rich also pay a higher share of taxes than at any time since the Great Depression"

If you look at historical rates, you'll see that not only is this not true, we are near the lowest ever.

You say: "Teaching people to be dependent on the government for all of the important decisions is NOT teaching them to be indepenent or successful. "

That's patronizing, and I don't need the governemnt to teach me how to live, I need a government that creates and maintains a stable economy so I can flourish on my own.  Without regulations, Laissez-faire economics = Dickensian nightmare

Working class wages have been stagnant since the early 70's, while the very rich have ammassed huge fortunes.  Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are challenging the Forbes 400 Richest to donate half their net worth to charity.  I wonder how that's going.

Posted by Watts Carr (EXIT Homeplace Realty) almost 9 years ago

Watts,

Those are some great points you make.  When I hear these Faux News viewers spout their Glenn Beck talking points, I wonder what it must be like to live in Bizarroworld.  A world where people make up their own alternate set of facts and then willingly believe in them. 

Not only are the talking points these people are regurgitating completely fabricated, they are just shockingly offensive if you have a shred of humanity in you.  As someone who grew up as a preacher's kid, I am often amazed at the callousness of Repubs who claim to be Christians in this country.

Since we are on this topic and since Repubs like Lane like to lay claim to having Jesus on their side, I'd like to know how they reconcile the following scriptures with their persistent belief that the rich in this country are in fact the downtrodden and unfortunate.

"Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me" -Matthew 25:40

I often think of this scripture when I see people like Lane and Glenn Beck whining about how a husbandless mother trying to feed her children is threatening their precious 7 figure net worth.

Some others that come to mind...

"To whom much is given, much is expected. For those to whom much has been entrusted, much will be demanded"  -Luke 12:48

Proverbs 19:17 One who is gracious to a poor man lends to the LORD, And He will repay him for his good deed.

Matthew 10:42 "And whoever in the name of a disciple gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water to drink, truly I say to you, he shall not lose his reward."

 

The reality is that the poor in this country will always pay a larger percentage of their income to taxes than the rich ever will.  The rich are very innovative when it comes to evading their duty to pay taxes in this country.   Anyone who has ever been involved in real estate investing knows that to be true.  I know many fellow real estate investors who brag about not paying a dime in taxes. 

The reason that Jesus said it is much easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for him to enter the kingdom of heaven is that the rich tend to worship not only their riches, but their own ability to create wealth, rather than thinking about anything or anyone outside their own little selfish world.  It's a very narcissistic, almost sociopathic way of going through life.  It's also everything that Jesus spoke out against.

I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that Lane considers himself a Christian.  It's amazing to watch these people in action and I often wonder if they realize what it really looks like from this side.  Seeing them complain about how horrible it is, having to pay a few pennies to help an older fellow American on Medicare. It's truly sickening.

Many years ago, the first time I ever traveled outside of the U.S. I went to Germany.  On the way from the airport to the home of my host, I saw a very modern looking glass building so I asked what it was.  My host  (a very conservative officer in the German military) said, "this is where the unemployed people live."   I said, "Oh yes, we have this too, where the unemployed people go to get a job" 

My host responded "NO, this is where the unemployed people LIVE.  You see, this is not America. we would never allow one of our fellow countrymen to live on the streets.  This would be a national disgrace.  As Germans, we feel that if the people we elected into office are not managing the economy correctly and creating jobs, they should make sure that those who can not find jobs do not go hungry and end up living in the street."

That was a real eye-opener having just come from a country where people like to beat their own chest and brag about how great a country we are and how generous a people we are.

The cognitive dissonance that these Repub/self-proclaimed Christians live in and somehow function under is truly mind-boggling. 

God help us if these people slither back into power this November to continue their campaign of destruction they started under Bush.

God help us.

 

Posted by Jay Schmidt almost 9 years ago

Jay - I'm trying to decide whether to delete your comment...  First, I'm not a Republican.  Second, I have never laid claim to having Jesus on my side.  You seem to have your own little bizarroworld going on. 

Now, I could never lay claim to being as generous as you are, what with taking money away from people that earned it in order to give it to others... as opposed to Jesus, who asked... (please note, "asked") people to GIVE their own money to help others.  And since you are so well read on the subject, you might know about the study that showed that Christain Conservatives ranked at the TOP of the donation chart.  They donated a higher percentage of their income as well as money money in general... they also donated more time and even blood. You might also be interested to note that the author was a liberal that sought to prove the exact opposite of his findings... but he was also intellectually honest enough to not bury his results when they didn't line up with his expectations.

Charitable donations go down as taxes go up... and government is the least efficient means to deliver charity where it is needed, so your points are just washed out with reality. 

Your level of jealousy/hatred is obvious and high... your level of factuality is also obvious.. and low. 

Watts - Marginal tax rates have gone down, but the actual percentage of income paid in taxes by the top 1% and 10% have gone up... while the amount of taxes paid by the bottom half have gone down.  Feel free to check out the IRS, you won't believe me anyway.  And I am also a proponent of the FairTax.  I think that income taxes, by their very nature, are immoral.  It is the government laying claim to a portion of my life, and I don't see much difference between the government claiming to own 10%, 30% or 50% of the fruits of my labor... they are still assuming that the purpose I serve is to serve them.

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

I just realized that my reference to the camel/needle scripture was missing the words "rich man."  I'm sure most people understood what I was referring to but for those who didnt, here is an interesting site on that topic...

http://www.debunker.com/texts/needleye.html

Posted by Jay Schmidt almost 9 years ago

Here is a passage from

http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/20/news/economy/cbo_reconciliation/index.htm

The reconciliation bill, however, also will subject the investment income of high-income households, such as dividends, interest and rent, to a 3.8% Medicare tax. High-income is defined as individuals making more than $200,000 ($250,000 for couples filing jointly). The tax will be on the lesser of one's investment income or the amount of modified adjusted gross income above the income threshold. In other words, if a couple's total income is $300,000 ($50,000 above the threshold), and they had $40,000 in investment income, the 3.8% tax would apply to the $40,000. If their investment income was $60,000, however, they would only pay the tax on $50,000.

Plainly, the tax is on investment income, and has limits even then on how much investment income triggers the tax.

If you are interested in the truth, and not pandering to some political party, a simple Google search is all it takes. One search phrase turned this information up, second result on the page, along with several more reporting the same information.

So-- unless CNN is blowing smoke-- to say "There is a New Real Estate Transfer Tax in the ObamaCare Law" is at best misleading, and a disservice to our industry. At worst, it smacks of the Shirley Sherrod incident of this week. (You can Google that one, too.)

Any way we can leave such blatant twisting of the facts ala Limbaugh and his tribe? This stuff has no place in a forum such as ActiveRain? We are about real estate here.

Posted by Denver Johnson (West USA Realty, Mesa AZ) almost 9 years ago

Lane,

 

Why would you even want to delete my comment?

Also, I said "people like Lane claim to have Jesus on their side."   I'm referring to conservatives of course, whether they identify as Repub or something else. 

I personally don't deal much in residential investing anymore, I focus on commercial investments so the numbers I see are a lot bigger than in the Res world.  I do quite well in the commercial arena as do many of my colleagues, so there is no reason for me to be "jealous" as you say.  Nice try at justifying your personal code of selfishness though.

I have seen investors make 500K + on one deal, simply for finding a property owner in distress and connecting him with a buyer, and then demanding a huge percentage of the transaction.  Did this investor EARN that money? Personally, I'd say the guy who bussed my table at the restaurant I visited today, EARNED his money. The investor merely found a person in a bad situation and took advantage of the situation.

And I think it's pretty obvious that most people in the higher tax brackets who are giving to charities are doing so to get the tax break involved.  Otherwise why would they be so upset about a proposal to do away with those tax breaks?  If they were truly giving in a spirit of generosity, why would they care if they were getting a tax break for it or not?

You and your ilk like to repeat the mantra about govt being the least efficient way of doing anything.

This piece I recently read points out the tremendous disconnect in your collective thought process when it comes to this topic.

 

I am a Proud Conservative

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issed by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the department of labor and the occupational safety and health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and post on freerepublic.com and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

Posted by Jay Schmidt almost 9 years ago

Jay - Aside from being completely off the original post, you dropped a few insults... and i'm pretty tired of the 'tolerant' liberals being insulting, hurling names and assuming everyone that disagrees with them must just not be bright.  So, on to your little story...  Did you make that up yourself, or do you have permission from the creator to post it?

  • My utility company is a private company.  They are massively regulated and as close to a monopoly that a company can be...  If they really had to compete for customers, would prices drop?  I think so.  And I think we would likely see less centralization.  But you might notice that these companies have banded together and loan crews to each other duign storms and recovery... without being forced by the government. 
  • Yep.. got me on the water utility...  Their crumbling infrastructure is largely government owned and operated.  Hey, aren't those the guys that we see at the broken water mains where one guy operates a shovel and 4 guys supervise?
  • Sorry, watching satellite... and those channels don't actually have to be regulated by the FCC... And don't get me started on "the public airwaves"... that is just a lie so that the government can restrict freedom of speech by non-printed media companies. 
  • Generally you will find that the best meteorological equipement belongs to the TV stations.  The Weather Channel may be in a better position to predict the weather than the National Weather Service...  NOAA does some good stuff with hurricanes, but I think that a private company could do at least as much... film at 11. 
  • Do you think that a private consortium could grade food as well as the USDA and FDA?  You could choose to buy food that is 'approved' or not... your choice.  BTW, a child I know had to have Congressional intervention in order to get FDA approval for a procedure that the FDA has classed as 'experimental' for over 20 years.  The FDA stood in the way of his doctors (the best in the WORLD for the treatment he needed) because they didn't think the paperwork was in order...  We can do away with them. 
  • A regulated time is an interstate commerce concern... therefore there is Constitutional basis for it.  But the Royal Observatory in Greenwich would actually be as good of a source... 
  • Again, the roads would be a pretty valid ICC issue, with a little Defense Department thrown in.  As far as cars... I'd take my chances.  Pretty easy to find private concerns that grade the safety of cars... like the IIHS. 
  • The state Departments of Agriculture just insure that the fuel is up to standards...  But, did you know that the EPA has dozens of specific formulas for fuel by locality... if there is a shortage in Atlanta, fuel from Macon isn't allowed to make the trip.  There is really only a need for a couple... which would lover prices by not forcing refineries to have dozens of mixes and to have to change over constantly to make sure the right amount of product is in line. 
  • Postal Service is INCREDIBLY innefficient.  And the ONLY reason that they have no competition is that they won't allow it.  But, if you compare package service to UPS or FedEx, and narrow it down to the same service (time frame), you might notice that the USPS can't keep up... even while losing MASSIVE amounts of money. 
  • OSHA isn't too bad... but if unions are going to continue to exist, there is no reason that they couldn't provide that service to their membership... negotiate safety equipment in their contracts.  And of course, companies face giant lawsuits if there are preventable accidents, so there is another reason for them to be safe aside from OSHA rules.
  • You can build to code... or build better than code.  But I have a newsflash for you... it isn't the federal government that makes building codes.  It is state and local governments.  Besides, bulding codes, fire safety and police departments are all proper roles of government.  As it the military. 
  • We are SO far past the version of the internet that was developed by the Defense Department.  In fact, there is VERY little of that infrastructure left. 

So, would you rather buy a car developed by the government or one that was developed by a private company? 

Who is more efficient at helping the homeless, the government or a religious charity?  Which one can do more with $1,000,000? 

Is the government better at creating wealth than private companies?  What about jobs?  Even taking the administration's word for it, the "laser-focus" on jobs means that the government is spending a quarter of a million dollars to create 1 jobs... and this while one of the President's mouthpieces is touting that each dollar of stimulus is drawing $3 of private investment... so, they are saying that a job costs $1M...  We won't even mention the fact that the numbers they are claiming are absolutely fictional.  ("saved or created" would be a joke if it wasn't for idiots that believe the White House). 

The bottom line is that the government can do some things right... the closer that government is to home, the more things they can do.  BUT, there is a LOT that they can't do even adequately. 

Now, if you'd like to talk about the actual subject, which I think was beaten into the ground quite a while ago, then feel free...  Otherwise, don't assume it is staying.  Better yet, join Active Rain and post up your own opinion.  I'll be happy to shred it if you are wrong.  ;^ )

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Lane-

I don't think we're as far apart as some of the other commenters.... I'd like to see our whole tax code reworked.  The tax code currently has 4X as many words as the Bible, and simplification itself would reap untold rewards.  But let's face it, that is not going to happen. 

In reality, we are stuck with the tax code we have, and the most we can hope to do is tinker with it.  Conservatives ALWAYS want lower taxes, but there has to be some level where the taxes ARE fair.  Americans have voted again and again for candidates that support Medicare and Social Security (and the military). These services come at a cost that we all pay for with taxes. 

You may not want Medicare or Social Security, but most Americans do.  If conservatives truly want a balanced budget, it will take a combination of reforms in spending and additional revenue from taxes.  I encourage conservatives running for office to show us exactly where they will cut spending.  Since they are so fearful of socialism, maybe they should run on eliminating Medicare and Social Security altogether.  That would be honest, but I have a feeling they are running on the same agenda that George W. Bush had.... cut taxes, but keep spending.  It wasn't that long ago, I'm sure we can all remember.

I've long heard the argument that cutting taxes for the rich actually brings in more tax dollars to the government, and while this may be true in times of economic expansion, we aren't in one of those times.  And at some point, if you keep lowering the taxes, you will reach a point of diminishing returns.  As complicated as our tax code is, I don't know if we will ever be able to tell what is "just right", but a tax rate that makes a balanced budget is a good place to start.  Or we can start with spending cuts, but remember that Social Security, Medicare and the Defense Department make up over 60% of our budget, with interest counting for another 6%.

 

And I believe your stats as much as I believe mine, let's face it, the tax code is complicated... it's hard to draw conclusions (and accurate graphs!) because the tax code is so enormous. 

Like Reagan, Obama came into office with a table-full of economic problems.  Reagan's job approval was at 43% in 1982... a recent FOX poll put Obama's approval rating at, you guessed it 43%.  Like during Reagan's time, our deficit is ballooning (but that was OK then as it is OK now, as long as we make up for it in good times, like Clinton and the Republican Congress did somewhat successfully in the 90's).  Immigration was also an issue for Reagan, and he gave millions of illegal aliens amnesty....

All I am getting at is that Obama is not some radical socialist set on bankrupting us all and ruining our country.  He loves America like Reagan did.  He's made a small tweak in the tax code, and agree with it or not, this 3.8% tax argument is making a mountain out of a mole hill.  But it is fun (and a benefit to society?) for us to argue the bigger issues that this tax represents, so thank you for the opportunity.

(Jason #232) As long as we're talking Bible...One could put any single scripture one wants up here, but there is no doubt that Jesus wanted us to help the poor.  You argue that he wanted each of us to do it on our own, but I don't think He'd slap the gov't cheese out of the hungry child's hand.  He also said "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” (Matthew 22:21). (There's my single line of Scripture!)  Jesus is literally telling us to pay our taxes! 

Jason says: "It is always our choice. That's called FREEDOM. And that's what the entire Bible is about."

the word - free - appears 59 times
the word - freed - appears twice
the word - freedom - appears twice
the word - freely - appears 17 times
the word - freeman - appears once
the word - freewill - appears 17 times
the word - freewoman - appears 3 times

the word - poor - appears 205 times
the word - poorer - appears once
the word - poorest - appears once
and
the word - poverty - appears 15 times

Whoops!  Looks like the Bible is more about the Poor than Freedom.  I don't think Jesus would mind help for the poor coming from the government through taxes, but that's up to interpretation.

Thanks for the lively debate!

 

Posted by Watts Carr (EXIT Homeplace Realty) almost 9 years ago

Watts - In times of strife, like now, cutting taxes for the rich increases employment... and that turns the economy.  Raising taxes now will NOT help the country recover.  Increasing taxes when the economy is steam-rolling might be needed...  This isn't the time. 

I would disagree though about Obama's love for the USA.  I think that he might love what he wants this country to be, but I don't think his vision for this country is really shared by that many people... and I also don't think he wants people to know his true agenda.  That would be the reason for all of the deception and trickery he has used to push his agenda... 

As for the Bible, I don't see it as an instruction manual for government as much as for person action.  And Jesus wasn't a governor...  I think that he would rather see a person give out the cheese than the government...  What I think he might like even more is a government NOT making it more difficult for families to feed themselves... 

;^)

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

I knew we weren't that far apart.  Hey, I'm willing to keep the Bush tax cuts for those making less than $250k, but in the long run we will need to match spending and revenue somehow.  With either of our approaches, we will be running a big deficit for the forseeable future.  I'm not going to suggest closing the mortgage interest deduction here on ActiveRain! ;-)

You don't think our president loves his country?  Oh, man.  True agenda?  You mean he's not going to end the war in Iraq?  He's not gonna close Guantanamo?  I thought that's what conservatives wanted!  I jest, but really... he ran on health care (passed!), finance reform (passed!), sending more troops to Afghanistan (done), ending our policy of torture (done, well, Bush eventually stopped it).  What's the hidden agenda? I hope it's "Beer Summits for All"! (Ah, levity!)

I'd also hope that the folks making over $250k, who sell their house at a profit, wouldn't mind too much if the 3.8% went to feed poor people, or even better, to teach them how to fish.  We have a very successful Community College system here in North Carolina that trains workers, and it has been a great benefit for recruiting new industries and preparing working folks for the real world.  Tax dollars at work, teaching folks how to fish.  (Ironically, one of the courses at the Community College near me is all about "Fish Farms"). 

 

Posted by Watts Carr (EXIT Homeplace Realty) almost 9 years ago

Obama

Posted by Manny Gonzalez (Negotiable Realty LLC) almost 9 years ago

Lane,  You are most gracious and patient.  Thank you for all of the work you've put in to getting the facts for this post and you're follow up comments.  

Posted by Doreen McPherson, Phoenix Arizona Real Estate ~ (Homesmart ~ Scottsdale ~ Tempe) almost 9 years ago

Watts,  Suggest you try to read the Bible instead of tearing it apart.  

Jason,  Thank you for your input.  

Posted by Doreen McPherson, Phoenix Arizona Real Estate ~ (Homesmart ~ Scottsdale ~ Tempe) almost 9 years ago

> but I don't think He'd slap the gov't cheese out of the hungry child's hand.

Again, this is super-imposing your personal thoughts and opinions on The Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible Clearly reveals the Mind of Christ and tells you what He would do. Don't mistake our Lord's "Permissive Will" with his "Desired Will"--they aren't the same. Not even close. But this isn't the time or place for a detailed categorical study of that subject either...

> He also said "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” (Matthew 22:21). (There's my single line of Scripture!)  Jesus is literally telling us to pay our taxes!

That's exactly what He is telling us to do...I don't recall anyone saying, "I won't be paying them!"

The Christian way of life isn't about changing the Government or trying to hold it hostage--it's about renovating your mind by learning and applying God's word to your daily life. The Christian way of Life is a super-natural way of life and can be executed in times of great prosperity and tyrannical governments/regimes.

It's very simple (notice I didn't say "easy"): Get your eyes off people and get them on God.

Authority orientation (like the verse you pointed out) is very much a part of the Christian way of life. However, that doesn't mean that Christians can't openly discuss politics and even debate them--We should never be consumed by them or put our faith in man (party) to solve our problems. Nor should we ever think that our security comes from who is in office, or what laws they do or don't pass.

> Jason says: "It is always our choice. That's called FREEDOM. And that's what the entire Bible is about."

the word - free - appears 59 times
the word - freed - appears twice
the word - freedom - appears twice
the word - freely - appears 17 times
the word - freeman - appears once
the word - freewill - appears 17 times
the word - freewoman - appears 3 times

the word - poor - appears 205 times
the word - poorer - appears once
the word - poorest - appears once
and
the word - poverty - appears 15 times

Whoops!  Looks like the Bible is more about the Poor than Freedom.  I don't think Jesus would mind help for the poor coming from the government through taxes, but that's up to interpretation.

I can't believe that you'd actually use word density in the Bible to try and prove a point. Let me make this really easy for you: How many times does the word "knowledge" appear in the dictionary? Yet, a dictionary is a source of what? What is it used to gain?

Some things are just implied. Some things are just there on the page, even if they aren't written on it. Some things are revealed by the Holy Spirit when a qualified pastor digs them out from the Hebrew and Greek. Man's FREEDOM can be found in the opening books of Genesis and found all the way to the last word of John's Revelation. It's there...seek and you will find.

You're really missing out on the most beautiful thing in the world: GRACE, if you only use God's word to prove points and promote political agendas. I pray you experience grace and how truly amazing it is.

We will always have the poor (in this dispensation), but we won't always have the time to exercise our FREEDOM to decide. Decide what? Faith alone in Christ alone. After that it is: Do I grow in knowledge of my Lord and Savior? That's the issue. And you are always free to decide. God won't ever force you. He's always a perfect gentleman.

Posted by Jason almost 9 years ago

Lane, you and your friends are a third of the population.  Those others from the left are a third of the population.

I guess that technically makes me a moderate and part of that group that makes elections go 51-49 since neither of you has enough votes on your own. 

You're both acting like middle schoolers at a dance.  You get into this 'mixed' environment and immediately the parties separate out like boys and girls finding opposite sides of the gym. Right and left both run to their extreme. 

Hey, it's me...I'm a moderate, I'm over here and I've never missed a vote in my life.  I guess I'm just feeling left out.  I was hoping someone would pander to the middle.  It not only makes us feel important, but moderate trumps either extreme when you're running a country.

Posted by Chris Richter (Wintrust Mortgage) almost 9 years ago

Chris - I love finding common ground, and obviously as a real estate agent I look for win/win situations all of the time... but they aren't always possible.  There is no compromise with people that only desire our death... there is no compromise with people that feel it is their mission from God to enslave or kill anyone that isn't of their religion.  Frankly, there isn't much compromise with someone that think that everything earned by another person should be theirs to disburse... 

That may seem extreme, but listen to language out of Washington, DC... not just Democtrats of Republicans... ALL of them.  They call a tax cut an "expenditure".  If they let you keep a dollar in your pocket, it is a federal expenditure.  Can you imagine a theif robbing you, and then flipping back a $20 bill from your own wallet... and then calling it a gift.  "What do you want, I just gave you $20?"

So, while compromise is found in the middle... there isn't always a middle.  And other times, the middle is just a death of 1000 small cuts.

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Lane, no one asked you to "straighten me out".  You should have ignored my comments way before you got "tired".   You have said nothing to refute (or as Sarah would say, refudiate) my points.  Actually, you have resorted to name-calling, insults or ignored what you can't answer with your questionable stats or opinions or otherwise spin away.  We're all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.  Facts are just that - reality, not the fantasy of someone's mind, opinion or interpretation of events.  Or determined by whether you like someone as a person.

I noticed you have had no comment to Jason, who has made inappropriate, judgmental remarks of a "religious" nature.  Not spiritual, just his religion, which doesn't sound very inclusive for him to claim to be a Christian. 

>>>  @Jason - you can tell "I'm hurting"?   I can tell you're a fanatic.  And, no, I'm not "speaking for God".  Maybe that's your opinion of my comments, but your opinion would be wrong.  You're just using this page to preach.  There's nothing more arrogant than a "Christian" who thinks his way is the only way.  Like my presidents, I also like my preachers to be well-educated and intelligent.  You haven't said anything that shows you're qualified to preach or to judge.  <<<

Back @Lane: You opened this can of toxic soup with an inaccurate, inflammatory, misleading title to your blog which was an entirely political statement.  You invited political controversy, so for you to say commenters are way off subject is just wrong.  Your comments to those who disagree show that you haven't followed your own instruction to "Play nice."   Denver Johnson (#233) is correct - AR is a real estate forum.  Getting it off your chest in a real estate blog is not helpful to the industry.  Keeping your storm cloud to yourself - that would be helpful!

If you ever do watch MSNBC, you'll see that more than half the anchors are right-leaning.  If you're really paying attention, you'll notice that most "news" or opinion commentary is negative.  The president and his administration take plenty of bashing from the mainstream media - NBC, ABC, CBS.  Negative is what people tune in to hear.  The occasional positive story about the President nearly always carries a negative twist at the end.  (Have you ever heard a positive report about the President on FOX?)  CNN is the most fair and balanced news broadcaster.  That's why they're last in the ratings and Fox is first - people love to hate, but more than that, they love to talk about it.  Nice or accurate doesn't sell so well.  Your statement, comments and the responses validate that.

And, BTW, FDR was elected 4 times by the people.  I think the voters of his era have more credibility than psuedo historians.  Also, economists are all over the place with their opinions.  They, the experts, disagree with each other more often than not. They're full of 20/20 hindsight.   Or, sometimes they just have a book to sell.

No one likes taxes, but we all like our services, utilities, highways, parks, etc.  Many like to go to war - very expensive habit.  HOW DO YOU PROPOSE TO PAY FOR THE COST TO RUN THIS COUNTRY?  I think you would oppose any tax, no matter how fair or reasonable.  So, HOW?  Subscribe citizenship - have people pay monthly to be an American citizen? Lock 'em up or ship 'em out if they can't? Charge/itemize ala carte for any services that benefit the people?  Freedom isn't free.  And stuff costs money.  You and your friends have no solutions, just objections to everything. 

Posted by Tricia almost 9 years ago

@Georgia:  Oh, my goodness, you outed me.  Feel better?  Must be slow where you are, too.  You have made a number of back-at-ya comments to various people who disagree with you.  If you and the others can't take it, don't dish it out.  This is not a nice subject.

I'm not ranting, just commenting, and not directed at anyone but those who have made derogatory remarks to me.  I don't have to justify myself to you but I was pulled into this "discussion" because of the misleading title of the blog.  Don't know about where you are but here "Transfer Tax" is $1 per thousand on the purchase price at closing.  Lane knew exactly the reaction he would get.  I think he's a big boy who can defend himself.  Why are you still visiting the site?

Spending?  The Repubs have spent plenty on tax cuts for the wealthiest people but didn't pay for them with cuts elsewhere; also wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.  A lot could have been done with that money but it's gone and continues to go. Under Reagan and GWB government grew and spending grew far beyond even some of the other Republican presidents and much greater than under Democrats.  Sweep around your own doorstep first.  Waste is rampant, but every state wants their pork.  Unfortunately, it takes a lot of taxes to pay for all of it.  Solutions, not obstruction, would help us dig out.  What services and conveniences do you want to give up?

Posted by Tricia almost 9 years ago

More toxic soup.  Now I know how all the ridiculous email forwards are generated.   You know, the ones people forward over and over 'cause they think anything they see on the 'net is real and true, and they want to save the world and be a hero.

@Georgia:  Where are you and what company are you with?  Not that I really care, just curious.

 

Posted by Tricia almost 9 years ago

It's getting to the point that every time I hear something like this I just throw my hands up. What can we do now? These ppl are in office and they're making the laws. "We" collectively elected them. While those of us in the RE industry are all too aware of the repercussions of these ridiculous new taxes/laws, it is up to us to educate our clientele on how it DIRECTLY affects them. Perhaps in future years they will think about these things when it's time to vote again.

Posted by Cari Anderson almost 9 years ago

It seems there are endless ways to make our job more difficult!

Posted by Sybil Campbell, REALTOR® ABR, SFR, SRES Williamsburg, Virginia (Long and Foster REALTORS® 5234 Monticello Ave Williamsburg, Virginia) almost 9 years ago

Tricia, I would gladly accept the actual Constitutional mandates of the federal government...  That would allow people to actually be responsible for their own lives.  Maybe it would do some people some good to be responsible for their own choices rather than leaving them to some government they hope is benevolent. 

BTW, the didn't have an income tax for most of the years between 1789 and 1913, except for a couple of years around the Civil War.  After that, it was quite small... 

The question is, what will happen if my kids don't want to take care of all of the kids that don't want to take care of themselves?

Posted by Lane Bailey, Realtor & Car Guy (Century 21 Results Realty) almost 9 years ago

Until we rid ourselves of spend and tax representation in government we will continue to see the redistribution of wealth. We cannot buy our way out of the mess we're in. We must lower taxes and shrink government. What a shame to tax those that acheive more $$. Seems lopsided to me.

Posted by Doug Dawes, Your Personal Realtor® (Keller Williams Realty - Topsfield, MA) almost 9 years ago

Thanks for sharing this info! There has been a lot of talk about this, but I haven't heard the details.

Posted by Don Wixom, "Looking out for your next move..."tm (RE/MAX Advantage Nampa, ID) over 8 years ago

I never understand why people enter a lively informative discussion and bash someone else's opinion AND sign their name to it.  I understand the need to defending.  I think giving to the local RPACs is important, that money helps our voices be heard by our representatives ... and helped stop legislation that would have taken away the mortgage interest deductions away.   In other words if you have a strong opinion put your money where your mouth is! 

Ad hominem arguments always make me chuckle...when a person cannot refute statement, argument with a logical factual commentary they personal attack.  The personal attacks do not anger me, matter of fact they make me feel good...I know I have made my point and they have no factual or logical retort---when in a corner the only way out is to go for the throat.   An Administrative Law Judge who is a client once said "be flattered by Ad Hominem arguments...let them amuse you!"

It would be far more productive to direct our energy and words towards helping each other find solutions to prosper in a difficult market.  How much business we write has more to do with our attitude than market conditions.  In our industry what ever the market condition or interest rates there are constants that have lasted almost 130 years in this country:  An organized Real Estate Industry AND there will always be people who sell and buy.  Instead of bashing why not share productive strategies to survive and prosper in our ever changing industry?  We are in competition for business yet members of one of the most powerful organizations in the USA...National Association of Realtors. 

I don't like the current political environment, our leader, with rhetoric, consistent slams, jabs and caustic remarks is still in the campaign mode.   Instead of building bridges he has widened the gaps.  Instead of becoming the leader of all the people, he continually berates those who disagree instead of finding ways to compromise.  I don't recall another administration in history that didn't treat the previous with respect.  I voted for Clinton, he was a class act, bridged gaps and united the country.    I had hoped for a similar transition, a President for all the people not a party. 

I despise the health care bill...the pork buried in it and not for the reasons you may think:  That those who voted for never read it, those who changed their vote, strong armed or bought...they voted for but didn't believe in it, compromised their principles and sold the American people out in the process.  If it had been passed honestly with transparency, no back room deals, hidden agendas or pork...I'd support it, even if I didn't necessarily like it.  We should be cognizant that there is no such thing as a local Congressional representative anymore...to be elected costs in the millions..special interests funnel monies to influence the outcome.  Who is represented?  Follow the money....

Those are my opinions...you may not agree...and it is just fine with me...I might learn something during an exchange of ideas...a light could go on and I might be pursuaded.   This country was founded upon the exchange of ideas, lively debate and compromise.

Posted by Helen the broker over 8 years ago

Reading this blog and comments above made me very sad. What is going on with this country is so wrong. Why increasing taxes is these days the only solution to gov. issues?..

Posted by Inna Ivchenko, Realtor® • Green • GRI • HAFA • PSC Calabasas CA (Barcode Properties) over 5 years ago

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